Theos-Talk Archives (October 1999 Message tl00218)

>>Jerry, I understand, and agree, with the crux of what you are saying, but
to utilize the classic example of Hitler and his henchmen in WWII, how
would you term Hitler's actions if using terms such as "good" or "bad" are
unacceptable? >>

First of all, I would remind everyone that "vengence is mine, sayth
the Lord" and not worry too much about "justice."  Is killing people
a "bad" thing?  I think so, yes, and I would not do it if it could be
avoided (I just missed being drafted into the Army by 2 days by
having a son, and then later by 1 week with my second son).
Hitler killed a lot of people under the guide of the ends justifies
the means. I do not subscribe to that guide. Conger, on the other
hand, killed no one. Did his actions produce karma? Of course
they did, but I suspect he weighed that fact and decided it was
worth it (remember, all he did was throw out some folks he
considered to be troublemakers, which guru-leaders have done
from from the beginning).

>>In your post, "Response to Frank," you mention that "Conger did what he
felt he had to so for the harmony of the TS."  People do many things in the
name of "harmony" or "unification," but does it always deserve defending?>>

I have never defended his actions. Grace Knoche did, but she was
there as a witness. I wasn't there.  What I am defending, is Frank's
vicious and outrageous namecalling (slander is what it is).  Conger
was not a black magician and his actions were only seen as "black"
to those who ignored his warnings and were expelled. Adyar does
its share of expelling too. I have never once faulted them for doing so,
because I am am not privy to all of the facts. I am saddened whenever
anyone is expelled, because it demonstrates that we are all too
human. And I agree that those expelled have a right to protest. But
they have no right at all to sling the kind of mud like Frank is doing.
When I hear this kind of response, I can only assume that such
attitudes were why they were expelled in the first place.

>>Hitler and many Germans really believed that their country was under
threat
due to the Vienna Convention and economic crisis, along with beliefs about
historical lands once claimed as theirs.  They feared complete
dissolution.>>

Yes, and there was justification for their fear. But they "wrongly"
thought that the ends would justify the means (that killing all Jews
would be justified by having a better world). I don't believe that mass
murder can ever be justified.

>>I do not know anything about Conger, so you may be right on about him, or
not - again, I have no clue. >>

All I know is what I have read, and Donant.s account is the official
Pasadena view of what happened. Frank's position is that those
expelled were eye witnesses. He forgets or ignores that Pasadena
folks were also eye witnesses to those same events and that the
two sides saw things very differently.

>>But, how does one teach Compassion while
accepting the sometimes terrible, sometimes wonderful, things people do
under the cloak of "harmony?" >>

We can only be responsible for ourself. We cannot and should
not try to control others. We need to be compassionate as much
as possible and not judge others. Let their own karma work
things out for them.

>> If someone were flaming Hitler - and I'm not
being flippant, I'm very serious - wouldn't you find yourself bound by your
statement above to defend him?  If not, why? >>

I probably would not defend him. No. I only defend
people whom I think are being unjustly accused.

>> And how would you "label"
what Hitler and his followers did?>>

Misguided. High karma stuff that they will pay and pay for
in the future.

>>  More to the point: How would you
explain it in terms that non-Theosophists would understand if you couldn't
use the term "bad?">>

I quite often use right and wrong in "normal" circumstances.
I think it is important to try to communicate with people at
their level, or at a slightly higher level, so they can understand
what you are saying.  I do this on the list too, and sometimes
Leon or someone will say that I double-talk and that I am not
consistant.  He is right. I am not. Well, I can only try ...

Jerry S.