Theos-Talk Archives (August 1997 Message tl00346)

In message <33F4C71B.1450@dmv.com>, Vincent Beall <vincent@dmv.com>
writes
>theos-l@vnet.net wrote:
>
>> From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" <guru@nellie2.demon.co.uk>
>
>> Subject: Re: Satan - to Bart
>
>> Even Jesus said we have
>> to take heaven by storm!  Older Xtian mystics advocated similar
>> approaches, telling contemplatives to keep on pestering God until they
>> got a sensible response ....

RSV: Matt. 11:12 - "From the days of John the Baptist until now the
kingdom of heaven has suffered violence [alt: has been coming violently]
and men of violence take it by force."

The Aramaic Peshitta text as translated by Lamsa has here:

"From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has
been administered by force, and only those in power control it."

Lamsa writes in the introduction to his translation (he was a native
Aramaic speaker from [then] Mesopotamia, English being his second
language:

"The Christians in Palestine and Syria were the first to embrace
Christianity. They must have had gospels in Aramaic in order to preach
to Greeks and other people. Gospels were in circulation before St.
Paul's conversion. They were written ten or fifteen years after the
crucifixion. They were the recordings of the eye witnesses who had
traveled with Jesus and who could record most of the teachings of their
Lord. Papias tells us that Matthew wrote in the language of the Hebrews,
that is Aramaic. This is supported by the testimonies of the early
fathers and historians."

~The New Tesament according the the Eastern Text translated from
Original Aramaic Sources~ George M. Lamsa, Philadelphia, A.J.Holman
Company, 1933-1968.  The complete Bible tr. by Lamsa is also available
from Harper. There is also a Hebrew/Aramaic diglot of the ~Peshitta~
[Aram: pure, simple] New Covenant text (no English, except in the
introduction) published by the Bible Society in Israel. I only mention
this as yourself and others on the list may find it of more than passing
interest.
>
>Alan, you are probably making reference to the words of Paul in Hebrews
>4:16 which in the KJV goes as follows:
>
>"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may
>obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

No I am not, but I must confess to a surfeit of reading!  The exact
words I used may be elsewhere, although I am fairly sure that Jesus
urged his followers to (in effect) hammer on the doors of heaven until
they got a response ... in any case, the mystics mentioned above were
fond of suggesting this might be desirable or necessary.
>
>The revised version of this text uses the word confidently in place of
>boldly. I suspect that most of the "violent" language in the new
>testament writings has its source in Paul.

Hardly any scholars would accept any more that Hebrews was written by
Paul, though this does not materially affect your accurate comment.

I do not have my Bible search programs on this PC, which I must remedy!

Alan