Theos-Talk Archives (May 1997 Message tl00369)

At 04:29 PM 5/24/97 -0400, Titus Roth wrote:
>Reading my backlog of mail, I had to comment on the following words of
>Krishnamurti. I have no problem with simple truths - those gems of
>archetypal wisdom. But I do have a problem with simplistic truths,
>which are deceptively like the real articles - and Krishnamurti can be
>simplistic at times.
>
>> ... the moment you come to me and ask me, "Is a guru necessary for
>> understanding?" then I say, "No." On the contrary it is destructive.
>
>A blanket statement that is contradicted many times over. Read the
>writings of Kirpal Singh, Milarepa, Yogananda, Yukteswar, Sai Baba
>.. etc.
>
>> It is not just an idea of mine. This is not an intellectual thing it
>> is a living reality. Until you feel these things, words have no
>> meaning. You can attend hundreds of meetings and even then you will
>> still remain slavish to a guru.
>
>There have been many ethical gurus who do not expect slavishness of
>their disciples. Yes, there have been many more fat gurus who do make
>slaves of their students, but so what? Cheap imitations abound for
>everything.
>
>> Now, so long as there are false values, there must be conflict, and no
guru,
>> no system, no method except your own clarity, your perception, is ever
going
>> to free your mind from false values. You want a house, you want power.
It is
>> no good going to a guru, for example, and saying, "Please teach me how to
>> find out right values." You go to a guru and ask him to teach you spiritual
>> things and yet continue with your daily mundane activities, your daily
>> acquisitions.
>
>Bad students do not prove that the teachings of their gurus are bad. If
>I try to live as Jesus taught and fail does that disprove His teachings?
>
>> The guru who teaches you the method of independent thinking does not
>> exist. Do not say, "My particular guru teaches me that." That is an
>> absurd way of getting out of it. There is no method, no system; there
>> is no guru who can liberate you. I know this is contrary to your
>> sacred literature, to all your ways of thinking.
>
>Absurd. A guru's purpose *is* to teach you independent thinking. The
>path to independent thinking doesn't mean you start with a vacuum.
>
>> Your minds are so suffocated with ideas which are mostly false that
>> no method can free you from past tradition, because the method
>> becomes another cage in which you will be caught. So to free the
>> mind, never allow your past traditions, your upbringing, your social
>> laws, your religious edicts, to penetrate your thinking.
>
>You have to rightly use the truths of the past, not declare them
>useless. The dharma is not a rigid set of rules and methods.
>
>---
>P.S.
>
>Don't take this personally, Doss. (I think you won't.) I can tell that
>you are full of insights and good practical application of your
>insights.  And if you find something in Krishnamurti that benefits you,
>I have no right to criticize it. I wanted merely to make some comments
>on a few statements that I think are misleading.
>

Hello: I don't and should not take anything personally. Only time I tend to
take things personally is when some one questions my honesty or integrity.
In all these things we discuss here, there are many many points of view and
so long as we keep in mind that we are all try to learn and be humble in
our own certainty of what we know, we all will be ok. One day we all will
know truth first hand.

.........doss