Theos-Talk Archives (April 1997 Message tl00062)

Liesel:

>Further discussion with Thoa
>
>For sure, Plato's cave is like Serge's first principle. But when you talk to
>Serge, he also implies that you can most often think up your own world as it
>suits you, and change it around to suit yourself. Somehow, this isn't 100%
>possible, because he also talks about a hurricane and a volcano having a
>mind of its own. It will sometimes do what you ask of it, if you know how to
>ask it, but sometimes it just has to do what it has to do.

That is why it is important to think in terms of mind/body/spirit working
together.  To deny any one would be to deny a factor that might help in the
healing and health process.  The linear principle is important in order to
define the cause and effect of something.  If you have a cut, then you need
a bandage and topical solution to heal it.  However, the mind and spirit is
also important.

For the mind, this includes the example of the imaging used by the boy
pretending that his cancer was the opposing baseball team.  Dr. O. Carl
Simonton did experiments on using imagery to help cure illness.  However,
the technique is not as effective as conventional therapy, but it indicated
that the mind does have influence over the healing process.  Another mental
process is just plain ole determination to not be defeated by sickness, the
determination to get well and get on with life, a reason and passion for
living.  Also, the placebo effect is important.  Believing that something
will happen will most likely help more than believing that something will
not happen.  The mind connection also works on a subconscious level.  I
vaguely remember reading on an experiment done on mice in which mice were
fed chemicals that lower their immune level at the same time that a certain
scent was emitted.  When they stopped feeding the mice the chemicals, but
still emit the scent, the mice's bodies still reacted as if they had ate
the chemicals.  It worked in vice versa when they fed the mice things that
made them feel stronger.

Lastly, the spirit contributes to the healing process.  It was shown that
people who practice meditation have a lower stress level and a happier
outlook on life.  Meditation allows one to be in the present state, not
thinking of distracting or stressful thoughts.  Giving oneself a time to
meditate is like giving your body/mind/spirit a time to rest and reflect.
Another way of pausing is to just drop everything, such as when you did
nothing but eat and sleep for months.  I find that when I am stressed about
something or wish something could be done about it, sometimes it is best to
just not care.  This does not mean that I let go of my responsibilities.
It just means that I give myself time to not worry about it, to just sit
down, have a cup of tea and read the National Enquirer for a good chuckle.

Some people find that involving the spirit in healing includes going on a
spiritual quest, doing things that connect oneself with God.  Other
spiritual healings include involving more love in one's life, loving one's
family and friends, loving others through compassionate work, staying away
from anything that is spiritually degrading, or just loving wonderful
aesthetics, such as music and art.


>I suppose from the point of view of physics and chemistry a shamanic system
>is irrational. It's based on sometimes invisible factors, but I find that
>Serge's reasoning makes a lot of sense to me. There isn't much he asked us
>to accept on faith. He always had us trying out what he told us about, and
>it worked, sometimes for all of us, sometimes only for some of us.

What does he ask people to try?


>"The root of illness is in the soul". Harry Van Gelder, who healed people
>partly with homeopathic remedies, would always prescribe some remedies which
>worked on the spirit and some which worked on the body. One of the
>biofeedback researchers I read said that it doesn't matter where you tap
>into a system, you can start a healing. That made a lot of sense to me,
>because when you heal spirit it also helps heal the body, and when you heal
>the body, it also helps heal the spirit. Maybe starting with spirit is more
>effective, but there are those who can't heal that way, and I think rather
>than give up, they should start healing the way they know how. I think it
>helps heal. Maybe the trick is not to stop at one but to keep going till
>you've healed the whole human being as much as possible. I can tell the
>truth of that simply by my present experience. Since Harry has passed over,
>I've had to rely on what's at hand, which is often allopathic medicine.
>Right now I need dialysis. That's an absolutely physical thing. The machine
>cleanses my blood. But the thing is, for the past 6 months, I did nothing
>but eat and sleep, and nothing intellectual went in and out of my mind. The
>dialysis is working, and I can tell you, my soul too has perked up. But I'm
>working on that too.

Yes, it is good that you are aware that the healing process is
multi-dimensional, and that you are giving yourself time to rest and care
for yourself.


>You talk about a shaman traveling to the land of the dead. One thing Serge
>touched on but I wish had taught us more about is traveling in Milu. You
>enter through a hole in the ground, and you go on a journey underground to
>help somebody. You meet and fight monsters, and think your way past all
>kinds of obstacles, and come back with an object or an idea retrieved to
>restore the person you're helping.

Perhaps, in a way, this shamanic travel is symbolic of the shaman's contact
with the cosmos.  The shaman can do this as nobody else can because he/she
has learned to connect.  Being in contact with the cosmos, a person can
come back with answers that were once obscure.  This is like meditation, in
which one meditates on something, mentally travels out of the physical
realm, and then come back with an answer.  The answer from the collective
is greater than an answer from limited thinking.


>I've learned too that shamans assist the dying, and newly dead.

It's about time that the dying aspect is highly respected.  Instead of full
of anxiety and denial, the dying process should be celebrated as a ritual
of graduation toward another realm (of course, this doesn't mean I agree
with the Heaven's Gate philosophy.  Killing oneself, IMO, is a cowardly way
of escaping the lessons life has for us).  Thus, I like the Tibetan and
shamanic way of dealing with dying.  Not only is this good for the living,
but good for the dying.  Although the body appears to be unconscious, I'm
sure that the mind and spirit is still active for some time, even talking
strictly at the linear level.


>The technique of the little boy fighting cancer with a baseball team is
>considered third level, I think. He's changing what is in our world by
>changing symbols. When you change the symbols, you also change what they
>stand for. 4th level is more when you feel as one with something. For
>instance I've learned more about what makes my little cat tick by trying to
>walk in her shoes.

I agree, being in empathy with something, you can more correctly diagnose
the ailment.  Looking at the person's ailment, you can imagine the pain
that the other person is going through, especially if you have had
something similar.  I'm sure that this is a critical part of a healer's
skill.  Instead of just saying, "You have a headache, take two aspirin and
call me in the morning."  The healer can individualize each illness by
asking thorough questions of personal life style, stresses, etc.  The more
information the healer knows, the more the healer can empathize with the
person's illness, and therefore devise a more original healing method.  As
far as miraculous healing where the healer can travel in the body, I don't
know much about that.


>I'm glad, since you're in college, that you find time to pray & etc. When I
>was that age, I was seeking but I didn't find anything to believe in. Also,
>I was too busy with secular matters to pray. Also, I didn't believe in it.
>Same in the first 15-20 years after I graduated, got a job, got married &
>had kids. I was too tied up with secular things. I'm glad you're getting to
>it early in life. It'll help you get further in the long run.

You can deduce by my last post that I'm out of college.  Thank Goddess!  I
believe that people with experience in secular matters are more critical in
positive contribution because they have more contact with the average Joe
or Joanne, instead of holing up in a religious institution.


>Glad also that you found "learning to be". I know what it is, from watching
>my kitty, but haven't achieved it yet.

I find that learning to be is just taking a moment to say that everything
will be fine if I don't think about it for a while, if I just either sit
there and do nothing, or sit there and do something just to enjoy without
worrying about accomplishing anything.


>Looks like you're out to become an artist. It's a wonderful profession, if
>you can find a way to make a livelihood. I came to it much later in life,
>through handicrafts. I was making puppets and wall hangings. In the last few
>years I've done acrylics. People say I'm good, but I dont' consider myself
>that swift. There are people in my art class who do lots better. But it's fun.

It ain't an easy profession.  You just have to agree that you can't count
on anything and just go!


>Everything is a dance - agreed.

Okay, give me Strauss!!!


>Take care
>
>Liesel

You, too.

Thoa :o)