Theos-Talk Archives (July 1996 Message tl00829)

In message <199607310521.WAA23005@sure.net>, James S Yungkans
<theos@sure.net> writes
>had to step in here, as the waters appear a little like the Ganges (Turbid
>and full of disease!)

.. a very unfriendly comment.
>
>>One memory cold be a past life recall, but fits the "reincarnating
>>quickly" model, and is (as all similar ones are) a sepcial case - death
>>in battle.  I was in a 1st World War aircraft, and was shot down (1918).
>>Reborn in 1933 with an otherwise unaccountably emotional attachment to
>>songs of WWI.
>
>The difficulty in this concept is that one assumes that one's "Past Life
>Recall" is one's real past life.

In spite of the typo, please note I said (or meant to say :-)) *could*
be a past life recall.

>  If we were to assume (Ass-U-Me always in
>mind) that the past life is infact one of HPB's "Shells" which has simply
>been attracted to you by "Sympathetic Vibration", "Magnetism", or what have
>you..Then how can you claim it to be your own.

Why "assume" anything?

>  Example: If I were to be
>attracted to 50's Music, Hot Rods, Malt shops, etc. (including individuals
>from this time period), did I die playing "Chicken" or crashing the Car to
>only be reborn.  Example two:  If I'm drawn to a detailed memory (from my
>own researches) of dying in WWII as a Jewish American soldier who went to
>war because of the Anti-Semetic acts of the Nazis. could I have been born in
>time for Example 1.  IF BOTH ARE TRUE, THEN COULD ALL THREE BIRTHS
>(INCLUDING CURRENT) be Accurate?  (by sheer logic, it is, however most
>unlikly.)  it is more likely that, due to pre-programmed vibrations from
>Parents, Siblings, Relatives, etc..that you attract these "Shells" to you
>only to play back their memories as your own...Ponder on this one before
>getting too deep in this pit.  Next time you might claim to be Edgar Allen
>Poe, and.....

Given your example, you are right, but who is getting into any pit?
There are a great many assumptions in your own post here!
>
>>Often, if someone I know has a relative or near one who has
>>just died, I "see" them or even "hear from" them, but only within the
>>first few days after their decease.  All my experiences in this area
>>*confirm* the general ideas and experiences of the spiritualists.  So,
>>my reincarnation experiences are more in accord with spiritualist
>>experiences than theosophical teaching suggests.
>
>These two statements are not synonimous (and are a perfect example of
>"Apples and Mangos.")  A) during the first few days someone might be
>"available for comment" since they would still be undergoing their "Life
>Review" (per some other teachings), however this does not condone
>spiritualist viewpoints.  As far as seeing someone dead for a longer period
>(Years, or Decades) you might find the materials in Collected Writings #1 of
>interest.  HPB could materialize, at will, if she so desired (and this is
>documented) but she attributed the "Spirits" to the memories of the
>individuals present, not to the presence of the  person materialized.
>"Shells" (Kama-Rupas) can be used by elementals, with interesting results,
>but that is something I think allen doesn't believe in.

Correct, ALAN doesn't.  My WWI experience is documented, and contains
many elements I could not have possibly known beforehand, but which were
verified by research after the experience.  So although it *could* have
been a "quick return" reincarnation, it does not follow that it was.
>
>Not meaning to "take to scrap" anyone's viewpoints, but the following might
>be of interest:
>
>If we look at the insight of Mr. Bain, we find the following errors
>1) the assumption that the human kingdom is not moving forward

I made no such assumption - I simply pointed to evidence that does not
support such a moving forward - but as none of us can have *all* of the
facts, assumptions are out all round.

>2) that the animal kingdom is advancing faster than we are

This is ridiculous - how on earth do you deduce such an assumption from
my post?

>3) that we shall be overrun by the overpopulation.

That, given a particular model, this would be a logical consequence.  I
did not make an assumption about this.
>
>If mankind was not moving forward, how would one explain the growth in
>psychic ability on as mass scale (which is an opening of the mind to the
>forces of the other realms, or "Awakening the Dreamer")

Could you provide evidence to support this assertion?  I for one do not
see any.
>
>The distinction between the animal kingdom and mankind is not PHYSICAL.  The
>message that everone should think about is that "GOD #$@#" gorilla in
>Darwinian clothes.  Humans, physically, are ANIMALS.  The human aspect is
>the individualization from the "Group Spirit" (As defined in our teachings),
>or an ascent from the descent into matter, and ascent into our human monadic
>self.  To get into details will require you to understand that you will
>become "Group Spirits" with your ATOMS becomming monads for future
>diminsions/generations/etc.  Reincarnation on a massive scale can be seen as
>the re-birthing you experience when your cells are replaced every howmany
>years?  If each cell is a LIFE (or incarnating ego) then perhaps you, as a
>Cell in the body of [Your Personal] God simply await rebirth until the body
>[of the personal GOD] provides the oportunity for you.  Interesting thought.
>(Someone want to continue/rebuke this one?)

"As defined in our teachings" does not tell me who the "we" of "our"
are. Most of the above does not resonate with me, or is expressed in a
manner I cannot follow.
>
>Alan, don't consider this an attack.  Your views appear to be very much like
>those from the late 1800s (spiritist all the way.)  As someone who also
>shares your "Sight" and "Hearing", please be aware that you and I both "KNOW
>what were talking about."  you simply have chosen to disregard the notices
>of others who have seen these PHENOMINAS for what they are, while I have
>chosen to read the guideposts left behind by others.

While I am only to happy not to consider your post as an attack, and I
am certain you do not intend one, to tell me what I have chosen or not
chosen to disregard is a kind of arrogance I deplore.  
>
>                                James
>
>P.S. Angels, Devs, Devels, Dragons, and all that stuff are the things that
>dreams are made of...this does not deny their reality, only defines their
>place in this "System." Food for thought.  I expect Mr. Bain's next post to
>be something on the order of "I only chewed in self-defence, but I never
>swallowed." (words of "Draco") 

I have no idea what you are trying to say here.  What I said in my
previous post was only a very small comment on a few experiences
relating to the subjects Martin asked me about.  It cannot possibly, in
a forum like this, be regarded as a cohesive statement of belief.  Bits
and pieces from a scrapbook, perhaps. And BTW, do not consider this post
as an attack - I just can't fathom where you are coming from or what you
are trying to say.

Alan
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