Theos-Talk Archives (May 1996 Message tl00505)

>>JHE
>>My understanding was that Subba Row wanted nothing to do with
>>the SD mss because it made certain teachings public that he
>>believed should be kept secret.

VB
>Didn't this continue after HPB and TSR had died - this action to
>thwart what HPB had revealed through her writings because they
>revealed too many secrets that some people from India (and
>possibly nearby regions) didn't want made public?  This issue
>may have been discussed already - sorry to raise it if it has.
>Call me paranoid if you want, but I think there has been a
>steady stream of purposeful misinformation and deliberate
>misdirection from a host of "minor characters", who originated
>in India and adjoining regions, targeted at people involved in
>theosophical works.

JHE
     You might find Victor Endersby's ~Hall of Magic Mirrors~
interesting in respect to the possibility of a "Brahman plot" to
take over the Theosophical Society and to thwart its mission.
Victor gave a "private talk" on this subject to some invited
guests back in 1984.  I remember at the time thinking to myself
"come on Victor--not another conspiracy theory--let's let this
one drop---even if they are true, they are always unprovable---
etc."  Well, the course of the TS from the time of the Judge case
to the present is enough to make anyone paranoid about Brahman
conspiracies.  Besant did adopt Hinduism and with the exception
of John Coats' short stay, the TS has been controlled by the same
family ever since.  I don't know if it is true, and it probably
can never be proven, but the circumstantial evidence is in
abundance.

VB
>My position [VB] is that some of the more obvious results of
>this counter movement to "keep the secrets secret" are the
>events and works of people such as AB, CWL, and AAB.  What a
>better way to bury what has been revealed than to lead the
>leaders into a confusion and mish-mash of ideas.  And in the
>mean time what do we know of the ancient Vedic philososphy that
>HPB kept toting to everyone?  Almost nothing over more than a
>century later.  Where are up to date and *extensive*
>translations into any english or any other European language by
>anyone who has an inkling of occult knowledge?  Where are these
>works so people in the "west" can judge for themselves?  Any
>theosophists in India on this list care to help me out here?

JHE
     Yes, the submersion of deeper teachings brings attention to
them.  But the confusion of those teachings by changing the
terminology and then putting it into another context works very
well.  I think most people in the TS (and probably on this board)
honestly believe that the teachings of HPB, TSR, APS, AB, CWL
etc. are really consistent.  I remember a woman in Long Beach
(California) who came to visit me.  I asked her what her group
studies.  She named books from all of the above authors, and she
said that they compare them to each other.  I asked her what they
do when the find a contradiction.  She said; "we talk about it
until the contraction goes away."

>>JHE
>>HPB wanted Subba Row and Olcott to stand united against the
>>Coulomb accusations.  Both refused to do so for different
>>reasons. .....Olcott argued that the accusations would
>>disappear on their own if the issue was ignored....History
>>shows Olcott to have been clearly and tragically wrong in
>>thinking that the accusations would go away.  They re-appeared
>>as evidence in the SPR investigation....On the other hand,
>>HSO's and TSR's threats that finally tied HPB's hands into
>>inaction, clearly resulted in the follow up investigation of
the SPR...


VB
>I disagree about H.S. Olcott.  The Coulomb accusations did
>formulate publicly into the SPR report against HPB.  They didn't
>go away in the lifetime of HPB or HSO but what has history
>proven up to the present date?

JHE
     Unless I'm missing something, I think we are agreeing very
well.  Those accusations are still with us.

VB
>What group (whether it be one or many organizations) has
>flourished the more - theosophy or SPR?

JHE
     I don't know quite what you mean by "flourished."  I don't
think the TS has flourished, but rather is dying.  Certainly the
SPR has a better reputation among the public than the TS.  The
SPR is regarded as a scientific organization that studies
phenomena.  The TS is regarded as a funny little cult that mainly
attracts little old ladies in tennis shoes.

VB
>Whose version of the issues in the SPR report on HPB has been
>vindicated by history?

JHE
     SPR's so far.  Vernon Harrison's report not withstanding.

VB
>What I can't understand is why HPB and HSO both put any emphasis
>at all on the SPR at the time.  They had hundreds and hundreds
>of different people and organizations tearing them apart and
>trying to mutilate them during their days.  Why focus on the
>SPR?  By paying so much attention to this report they gave it
>life.

JHE
     I don't know about "hundreds and hundreds" but HPB and the
TS did have enemies.  HPB spent a lot of time arguing with them
in ~The Theosophist~ and through the press.  The difference
between those people and organizations and the SPR was simply
that HPB was restrained from answering the Coulombs and the SPR.
Rather, they put her on a boat and shipped her out of Adyar.

VB
>HSO was on the right tract and history has proved him right in
>the *long* run.  Only HPB and HSO had to die first before the
>SPR report could die also.

JHE
     But it has not died.  It is resurrected in every unfriendly
biography and article about Blavatsky that has even been written.
Even the recent ~Smithsonian~ article resurrected it.

VB
>I [VB] once again have my own theory as to the unreasonable
>power of the Coulomb accusations.  In Volume 1 of HSO's diaries
>read the nature of the relations HPB had with her female cooks
>and housekeepers.  The way I see it, something had to balance
>out.

JHE
     Jean Overton Fuller published a similar view in
did not give her domestic help enough respect, and that Emma
Coulomb sought revenge against HPB for the way she was treated.
Well, it could be a factor.  But the evidence one way or the
other really isn't there.  The other, more accepted argument has
the documentary support:  HPB made Emma Coulomb return the
donations she was collecting from TS members for her own proposed
Organization.  Coulomb, in anger swore revenge against HPB and
sold (probably forged) incriminating letters to the ~Christian
College Magazine.~

>>JHE
>>I don't question the possibility of an Adept influencing an
>>idea in the mind of another person.  I do however, question as
>>to when an idea is inspired by an Adept and when it is not.  I
>>believe that historical inquiry is often helpful is answering
>>this question.
>>[snip]
>>As I stated above, my assumption is that HPB's exposition of
>>the doctrines are most faithful to her teachers.  That does not
>>make her infallible, but it does make her doctrines the primary
>>ones--next to the Mahatma Letters themselves......Why can't HPB
>>be the primary authority for what she wrote too?  Though Plato
>>is supposed to have been a re-expression of ancient vedic
>>philosophy, that does not mean that we have license to
>>"correct" Plato's writings every time it appears to contradict
>>something in Vedic Philosophy.  Plato is Plato.  Blavatsky is
>>Blavatsky.  Subba Row is Subba Row.  Vedic Philosophy is Vedic
>>Philosophy....

VB
>Yes!  Agree wholeheartedly.
>
>Historical inquiry, comparison of written (or recorded) works,
>and straight intuition - what other way can I judge if Adept so
>and so communicated with someone or not?  So far, I can't
>identify anyone who wrote since 1870 who had as direct a
>connection as HPB did.
>
>
>HPB's works are her works.  She openly said she drew from many
>sources.  But her writings are her own and she presented them
>that way from what I can tell.  Authors who mix their sources,
>call it someone's else's and not their own ideas, and then don't
>tell where they got their mixture from cause me more confusion
>than reading them is worth.

JHE
     Yes.  Two things will really make me impatient with an
occult or a non fiction work: when there are no citations, and
when there is no index.  Occasionally a book without an index
turns out to be worth while, so I usually end up indexing it
myself.  But a book without citations....&%@*#$!!  :-)


JHE
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   |Jerry Hejka-Ekins,                      |
      |Member TI, TSA, TSP, ULT                |
         |Please reply to: jhe@toto.csustan.edu   |
            |and CC to jhejkaekins@igc.apc.org       |
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