Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl01124)

Daniel C:<Looking at what you and Eldon have written on these subjects, I
beleive
that Eldon's understanding and your understanding of these subjects have some
MAJOR differences. I don't exactly know how these differences arose and I
don't know what assumptions either one of you have made. I wonder if both of
you are consciously aware of the various assumptions you each indivually made
as you have built your understanding of these subjects.>

The interesting thing is that both of us are basing most of our
understanding on Purucker. But then again, I think we have a lot more
agreements than differences. And I suspect that many of the seeming
differences are semantic or trivial. Eldon's approach is ala HPB and
Purucker as life-wave evolutions, Rounds, and so on. My approach is
more in line with AB/CWL while retaining the foundations of HPB &
Purucker. Why? Largely because AB/CWL talk about planes, and
they describe the four lower cosmic planes in some detail, but they
omit the Globes and as far as I know, never tell us where the Globes
come into their picture of the planes and subplanes. So, I have had to
do that one myself. Eldon and I have different ways of looking at the same
thing, and there may not be all that much difference.

Daniel:<Now you have admitted that these teachings on globes first appeared in
the
Mahatma Letters. And, indeed, we find the most detailed explanations of the
Globes occurring in the MLs, but HPB mentions the chain of globes or worlds in
*Isis Unveiled* and even earlier in a letter from 1875 to Colonel Olcott.>

The problem is that the MLs don't connect the Globes with the planes
very well, leaving a lot to the imagination. Nor did HPB, except on page 200
of Vol I of the SD. We find talk about the planes, and talk about the globes,
but very little about the two together and how they are related.

Dan:<But I would suggest that we use the quotations from the Mahatma Letters as
a
good basis upon which to base our (at least beginning) discussion of the
globes, planes and principles. (And I hope Rich, Brenda and whoever else will
also join in this discussion)>

Sounds fine.

Dan:<Or to put it a different way: Globe D (which is not just the physical
globe
we know of as earth) is composed of two aspects: an objective globe, world
or sphere and a subjective globe, world or sphere.>

Right. This is because Globe D, like all of the globes, is alive.

Dan:<"...every sphere has its world of effects, the passing through which will
afford a place of of final rest to ech of the human priciples --the seventh
excepted." Sorry for the mispellings! So can we not conclude that Globe D has
"its
world of effects" and this world of effects" is a "place of final rest to each
of the human principles....">

Agreed. Like goes to like depending on the plane.

Dan:<To use real simple terminology, the emotional body is cast off by the
Higher
Ego and this emotional body is left in Globe D's "world of effects" which
affords a place of final rest for this emotional body.>

The emotional body exists on the emotional plane or astral plane per
AB/CWL, and also occultism in general agrees with this. Globe D's "sphere of
 effects" stretches to the astral plane. Our physical body only exists here on
the
 physical plane and on no other. Our astral body exists on the astral plane and

on no other, and so on.

Dan:< And on p. 48
of the 3rd ed, KH describes "our world of effects" as a great halting place,
a station in which discarnate humans---"the old and disembodied Egos of our
planet find themselves after death. KH speaks of "that land of shadows",
and says "in that world, we find but unconscious, self-acting, ex-human
machines, souls in their transition state....">

Here is meant the lower astral plane, and I agree with the quote.

Dan:<What is this "land of shadows"? I would suggest that this is kamaloka and
kamaloka is within the sphere of effects. And in the next paragraph, KH
mentions "the lower world of effects">

Kamaloka lies within the four lower subplanes of the astral plane.

Dan:<Now when KH mentions the ascending spheres of Kamaloka, Rupaloka and
Arupaloka in the after death states he is referring to Globe D's "world of
effects".>

Right. His intention here is that our entire Kama-Loka and Devachan
experiences (what the Tibetans call the Bardo) are effected precisely by how we
lived
our life on Globe D (i.e., while we were incarnated). Our experiences on Globe
D
*cause* our experiences in the after-death states (the *effects* of our life).
The
same is true with our dreams. In this sense, the "world of effects" for Globe D
lies on the Etheric, Astral, Mental, and Causal Planes.

Dan:<The Atma-Buddhi monad experiences Devachan *through* Manas so above
kamaloka in Globe D's "world of effects" is the Manasic plane or planes---the
arupa and rupa lokas of Devachan.>

Manas exists only on the mental plane. And yes, Globe D's world
of effects stretches to that plane in the sense that when we enter this plane
after death, our experiences will be the effect of causes generated during our
life embodied on Globe D.

Dan:<The mental world in the world of effects of Globe D
can be broadly clasified into two "regions"---rupa (form) (concrete) and
arupa (formless) (abstract).>

CWL taught that the lower four subplanes of the mental plane
were with form, while the three higher subplanes were (relatively) formless.

Dan:<Then Eldon lists the seven classes of dwellers that inhabit Globe D's
"sphere of effects" ...>

I would certainly agree that all of these realms are inhabited and
that they are governed by "rulers" of whatever name you want to give them.

Dan:<"When [physical] man dies his second and third principles die with him; the

lower triad [ of 1st, 2nd and 3rd principles] disappears [ that is, reamins
remains in the physical world or world of causes of Globe D] and the
fourth, fifth, sixth and seventh principles form the surviving *Quaternary*."
Surviving where? I would suggest in the "world of effects" of globe D.>

The lower 3 principles stay on the physcial plane. The kama
goes to the astral plane, the manas goes to the mental plane, and the
buddhi goes to the causal plane, leaving only the atma left to start again.

Dan:<"Thenceforth, it is a `death' strugge between the Upper and Lower
dualities."
Where does this death struggle occur? I would suggest that it occurs in
the "world of effects" of Globe D?>

Right, but not on the physical plane.

Dan:<Devas (Spirits) are equally subjected to birth, decay, old age, and
death,'>

Be careful with that word "deva" because it also means god. The
Tibetan meaning is one who has godlike qualities such as long life and
high intelligence, and so on. However, gods do not learn or progress as
we do (or can) and so the human condition is favored over being a god.

Dan:<Now how does one correlate planes and sub-planes with these globes
composed of worlds of causes and worlds of effects?>

I think I already answered this.

Jerry S.