Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00884)

Thanks Jerry S. for your posting on Globes and Planes.

I certainly may be confused on such abstruse subjects, but I am even
more puzzled by some of your own comments.

For example, you write:

"When KH says 'Deva Chan is a state, not a a locality. Rupa Loka, Arupa-Loka,
and Kama-Loka are the three ascending spirituality...' etc, as in ML 25, he
is not referring to the after-death sate of Kamaloka, but to the four cosmic
planes below the Abyss, and so to the Dhatus, as G. de P. rightly calls them.
However, in the very next sentence he says `in the Kama-Loka (semi-physical)
sphere dwell the shells, the victims and suicides...the glorious `Summer-land'
of the Spiritualists..." etc, where he is, in fact , referring to the after-
death state of Kamaloka. So a large part of the misunderstanding must
rest with KH here, for making things so confusing (this may have been
intentional, with a `who who has ears, let him hear' attitude (?) I don't
know, but the reader needs to separate the two....."

Now before I make a comment or two, I will quote the relevant passsage you
are quoting from plus the clause you deleted. Here is the passage by KH:

"Deva Chan is a state, not a locality. Rupa Loka, Arupa-Loka, and Kama-Loka
are the three spheres of ascending spirtuality in which the several groups
of subjective entities find their attractions. In the Kama-Loka (semi-physical
sphere) dwell the shells, the victims and suicides; and this sphere is divided
into innumerable regions and sub-regions corresponding to the mental state
[should be "states"] of the comers at their hour of death...."

You say that the word "Kama-Loka" in the second sentence of this passage
does not refer to the "after-death state of Kamaloka, but to...." whereas
the work "Kama-Loka" in the third sentence of the passage does refer to
"the after-death state of Kamaloka".

But in the second sentence above as quoted by you, you left out the clause:
"in which the several groups of subjective entities find their attraction."
What are the "several groups of subjective entities"? and what does
KH mean by "find their attraction."

I would suggest that a careful reading of this whole passage would show that
KH is referring to the after death state of Kamaloka when he uses the
term Kamaloka in both sentences. "

"The shells, the victims and suicides" are among "the several groups of
subjective entities" who "find their attractions" in Kama-Loka.

As far as I can read English, KH is referring to the same subject in all these
sentences. And one sentence with its meaning flows in the next sentence with
its meaning with no confusion whatsoever.

You claim that "...a large part of the misunderstanding must rest with KH here,
for making things so confusing...". but is possible that maybe the "the mis-
understanding" is of your making, and that you have made "things so confusing"?

Is there a "Kama-Loka" within Globe D's "sphere of effects"?

I agree that there may be more than one "kama-loka" but let us not increase
the number by seeing "misunderstanding" where there is none.

Hoping that you will not take personal offense by what I have said above.

I also hope Eldon is working on the posting of relevant passages from the
Mahatma Letters.

Relevant passages from the Mahatma Letters and the Secret Doctrine on this
subject have been collected together and published in Adam Warcup's *Cyclic
Evolution: A Theosophical View*, See pp. 6-9 and 57-62 on "The Planet".

Daniel Caldwell