Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00850)

<Based upon my (limited) understanding of the Doctrine of the Globes,
 Globe D consists of two parts: (1) an objective globe or world of
causes and (2) a subjective globe or world of effects. Globe D's
"sphere" or "world of effects" contains Kamaloka, Rupaloka and
Arupaloka.>

I think that this posting, together with several others - all with
different views - clearly demonstrates the unsettled condition of the
Globes left to us by HPB. Even after several books of descriptions
by G de P, we still can't get any agreement. Oh well, maybe there is
a Globe for each of us somewhere out there :-) I had no idea before
theos-l that the doctrine of the Globes had so many many different
interpretations). I am now beginning to understand why so many
theosophists today prefer the Qabala ...

Let me say, that I have no problem at all with the MLs, including
ML 25 on Devachan. But I interpret what is being said quite
differently than Daniel or Eldon.

Part of the confusion must certainly be laid at the feet
 of HPB and her Adepts, who gave
us some strange terminology. The kama, rupa, and arupa worlds
or spheres, for example, include several cosmic planes each.
See G de P's Fountain-Source of Occultism, p. 323, for a good
picture of these areas, which he calls "Dhatus." The lowest
is kama (desire), then comes rupa (having form, but without
desire, otherwise spiritual), and arupa (having neither
desire nor form, the formless planes of divinity which are
beyond human conception). This is the traditional Buddhist
view of the planes. Compare G de P's figure on p. 323 with
HPB's on page 200 of SD Vol 1 and you will see the Buddhist
view compared with the Qabala. In all cases, the Globes
are equivalent to the Sephiroth. When KH says "Deva Chan
is a state, not a locality. Rupa Loka, Arupa-Loka, and
Kama-Loka are the three spheres of ascending spirituality..."
etc, as in ML 25, he is not referring to the after-death
state of Kamaloka, but to the four cosmic planes below
the Abyss, and so to the Dhatus, as G de P, rightly calls
them. However, in the very next sentence he says "in the
Kama-Loka (semi-physical sphere) dwell the shells, the victims
and suicides ... the glorious "Summer-land" of the
Spiritualists .." etc, where he is, in fact, referring to
the after-death state of Kamaloka. So a large part of
the misunderstanding must rest with KH here, for making things
so confusing (this may have been intentional, with a
"he who has ears, let him hear" attitude (?) I don't
know, but the reader needs to separate the two. Near the
end of the same paragraph, he is back to the three Dhatus
again, calling them Sahalo-Kadhatu (Saha-loka-dhatu), where
he admits that within these are "many regions of which but
three can be given out to the outside world" etc. However,
this entire paragraph says nothing whatever of the Globes.

To add to the confusion, note that in a following
paragraph KH says "the sensations, perceptions and
ideation of a 'devachanee' in Rupa-Loka, will, of course,
be of a less subjective nature than they would be in
Arupa-Loka, in both of which the devachanic experiences
will vary ..." etc. This sentence suggests that Devachan
can occur anywhere in the 6+ cosmic planes above the
physical, right up into and including the divine.

The statement "There are seven objective and seven
subjective globes ... the worlds of causes and effects"
is from KH in letter XIV and has only to do with the 7 Globes
below the Abyss, which is to say Globes A through G. The
objective Globes refer to "planets" in the sense that
they seem to exist all by themselves, with or without us.
The subjective Globes refers to these same Globes, but
viewed as worlds which are completely dependent upon us
humans as observers. This is, in effect, two ways of
looking at the very same thing. The Globes as objective
are worlds of causes, and the Globes as subjective are
worlds of effects. This largely has to do with the workings
of karma. We are not really talking about 14 different
Globes, but 7 Globes each seen in two ways - as dependent
(the Buddhist view) and as independent (the "normal" or
materialistic view). We make new, or receive the results
from old, karma depending on how we view ourselves and
the world(s) around us.

Hope this helps. I don't know if we will ever get ourselves
out of the woods on this subject.

Jerry S.