Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00577)

>> Jerry S:

>> I do not believe that we
>> have a Globe D ego, and a Globe E ego, and so on. I see
>> this as an unncessary complication. I see Globe E on
>> the astral plane as already including my astral body,
>> and Globe F on the mental plane as containing my mental
>> body, and so on.

>Rich:

>My understanding of the globes is that they are NOT planes,
>but rather the 4 lower principles of the Earth, corresponding to our own four
>lower principles.

There is a correspondence between the principles and the centers of
consciousness in man and in our planet, and the terms are sometimes
used interchangably, but I would make a distinction here.

The principles are the basic ingredients of consciousness, the
elements of selfhood, perception, and ego that we take on when
coming into existence. We have an assertion of existence (atma),
a sense of "other" and relatedness (buddhi), a personal ego or
awareness of being different than others (manas), a desire to
act in the world (kama), the life energies to take action (prana),
sense perception (linga-shirira) and the outer physical housing
for our consciousness (sthula-shirara). (This is, of course, one
of several ways to describe the seven principles.)

In coming into existence, we clothe ourselves in these principles,
which in one sense are our Skandhas returning to us *from outside*,
and in another sense are latent karmic seeds coming forth *from
inside* outwards.

Wherever we can exist, and take on full embodiement, we need
all the seven principles.

The globes are the "places" where existence can happen. They
are situated on different planes. When we come into incarnation,
fully clothed in our seven principles, on a particular plane, it
is on one of them. We cannot come into existence on an arbitrary
plane, nor in an arbitrary place in space. It is only on the globes
where we can exist.

The globes are to the planet what our centers of consciousness
are to us. Some are on higher, more spiritual planes. Our earth
as we know it is the lowest globe of our planetary chain, so it
represents the lowest plane *that we can know.* We're told,
though, that there are still lower planes (In "Inner Group Teachings,"
by HPB, where she mentions that we're on the fourth subsubplane of
the lowest cosmic plane, the lowest that our earth can go.)

Your statement that the globes are some of the principles of the
Earth is correct when we speak interchangably of principles and
egos or centers of consciousness. When we make a distinction
between them, we would describe it differently.

>The three higher "globes" are "formless" like our own
>three higher principles, and so they are not represented as "globes" (because
>globes have form and embodiment.)

Purucker also calls the higher globes formless. But he uses a twelvefold
scheme, where the five higher, formless globes are on the three highest
planes, and the seven lower, globes of form are on the four lower planes.

Even with the "formless" globes, though, there is a sense of "form" and
embodiment. Even on them, we're beings with our full seven principles,
including the sthula-sharira, or what corresponds to one on the plane
that the higher globe exists on.

What distinguishes a "formless" existence from one of form? Not, I'd say, a
literal absense of form, not the lack of objects and sense perception.
Rather, I'd say that *for us*, we'd experience the ability to act directly
upon the outer world without having to have a body or external form as
*our proxy*. We perceive what is there and make things happen directly
from our desire and will. The commands do not have to direct a form, a
body, to take the action for us.

A formless world, in my view, is populated with a rich array of forms,
and a richness of sensory experience. What differs in it is that the
beings participate by direct action upon what exists in the world. It
is somewhat like what we picture happening in our devachan, except the
world is teeming with life, whereas in our devachan we populate things
out of the content of our own consciousness.

What, then, is our sthula-sharira or "physical body" on a formless plane?
It is the images or forms projected directly out of our consciousness
at a particular moment in time. The externalized content of our consciousness,
given tangible, physical, sensory expression, is our "body" of the moment.
The "this is me acting" is not a body doing something, but these externalized
contents of conscousness.

>Globes besides globe D are entirely different grades of matter, and would
>certainly require different physical bodies and almost certainly different
>astral bodies, different prana and a different lower manas.

Yes, the globes, being on different planes, are composed of a different
spirit/matter combination. Some are more concrete, material, gross, unresponsive
to our life energies, others are the opposite.

>Whether our
>three higher principles would remain mostly intact it an interesting
>theoretical issue, but since humanity (OUR humanity, at least) has millions
>of years before we are done on GLobe D and move on to Globe E for new and
>different experiences, I see it as purely theoretical for the moment.

Here you're speaking of the centers of consciousness that correspond to
our three higher principles. Each has its own field of action. The lower
human center has a scope of a single globe; it corresponds to the personality.
The higher human center has a scope of the entire planetary chain; it
corresponds to the individuality or the reimbodying ego. And the spiritual
ego has a scope that spans the solar system.

I would say that the lower human ego, which is what we know ourselves as,
has been evolved particularly for Globe D, and that we have different personas
for the different Globes. It is higher within, in the individuality, the
higher human ego, where we have a form of awareness that spans the Globes.

When do we go to the other Globes? As the human lifewave slowly moves its
way from one globe to the next, we find ourselves involved in rebirth on
the globe on which the lifewave is on. It has many millions of years left
on Globe D before it moves on to Globe E.

Is this the only time that we visit the other globes? In spiritual training,
we may find rebirth on the other globes, on our way towards becoming a
Fifth Rounder or Mahatma. In death, initiation, and sometimes in sleep it
also may be possible to pass through the globes, but that is generally done
in a sense of "passing through", in transit to higher planes. We don't stop
at the globes, generally, long enough or completely enough to engage the
process of coming into "incarnation" on those globes.

>What I think is startling is to equate globe E with the astral plane and the
>astral body. This is nowhere in the teachings, they are very distinct ideas
>and concepts.

The globes are "on the planes", but they aren't the planes themselves.
And although there is a correspondence between globes and principles,
there's not a sense of identity. It's just that on a particular globe,
one of the principles may act as the "prime mover" or first cause of
action both in external nature and in our internal functioning of
consciousness.

> If HPB wanted to indicate that Globe E was simply the astral
>plane, she would have said so.

True. There are often many teachings spoken of behind the same set of
terms. But also, the seven principles, I'd say, are not the planes,
but are qualities or attributes of conscousness on any plane.

-- Eldon