Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00499)

Jerry S:

>However, one man's intuition is another
>man's psychism. If I told you that some of the material that I used in my
>magic books was from my intuition, you may not agree, and might say that I
>channeled it via psychism. How can I prove it, one way or the other? Also,
>intuition is no more "real" or accurate than anything else. We all sometimes
>have intuitive flashes that are plain wrong.

Yes. All our faculties are subject to error. And it is not always apparent
via which one someone used to come up with their ideas. The final proof,
apart from any argument for/against the authority of anyone that would
teach us, is our own developing insight.

>Eldon:< I don't think we try to take our consciousness out of the
>human mind. The goal is to shift the awareness away from the mind,
>to go higher within, and become aware of other manners of
>consciousness. The mind continues, the stream of thoughts continue.>

>I think that you are playing word games with me here. I don't see
>much difference between "take" and "shift."

What I mean is that the stream of thoughs continue, although we
don't pay attention to it. Generally speaking all our principles
are interrelated, and don't function independently. We can't stop
the mind anymore than we could stop Atman.

>Eldon:< The mind continues, the stream of thoughts continue.>

>They may at a lower samadhi, but the higher (nirvkalpa, I think)
>samadhi is one in which the human mind stops thinking - its stream of
>thoughts does come to a stop.

This happens if we'd stopped our practice in our Globe D human ego,
passed through an inner laya center, and are now functioning in an
entirely different ego within, perhaps the Globe E human ego. From
the standpoint of the Globe D center of consciouss the mind has
"stopped", but so have all the rest of the principles. But now we
are a different version of ourselves, with its own respective
seven principles, and the manas or mind of that ego is now functioning.
So when *this* minds stops, we're simply continuing to experience
*that* mind.

>I still say that every Path needs a goal or
>purpose or destination. The goal of yoga is to shift consciousness out of
>the human mind and bring that mind to a halt.

That would be a practice that emphasizes getting out of our Globe D
human ego, the focus of our human evolution, and to shift away to
another center of consciousness. It is a different goal than a spiritual
practice that fosters the unfolding of the higher principles in and
through that Globe D ego, which is working on the completion of its
current evolution.

>Most people (including Jung)
>think that this equates to death, but the yogi knows that it is existence
>itself, pure consciousness itself. Now this goal may or may not be the goal
>of a theosophist. It really depends on his or her "mission" or task in any
>one life. It is one of my goals, but perhaps not yours. Thats OK.

It is pure consciousness if we shift our focus into the higher
principles. It is an other-plane adventure if we shift away from
the Globe D human ego, into another ego or center of consciousness
in our constitution.

>Eldon:< I'd say that on any plane that we may come into existence, we take on
>all seven principles, which represent the complete ingredients of
>consciousness.>

>I think that you are a bit confused here. We don't come into existence
>on any one plane - we do so on all of them. We are not just on the physical
>plane right now. Parts of each of us are of all seven cosmic planes right
>now this instant. We don't "go" to another plane, we merely shift
>consciousness to that part of ourselves that is already there.

The planes are like a spectrum of spirituality to materiality, or
a spectrum of consciousness. We come into existence at discrete
points along that spectrum based upon our inner constitution. This
is much like when we break apart a star's sunlight, we see in a
spectragraph lines at certain frequencies, which indicate the
presence of certain elements. We're not in existence at every point
along the spectrum.

While I would say that we partake of an unconscious appreciation
of the "background radiation" of the higher planes, we don't have
an embodied existence on each and every higher plane. There are an
infitite number of them, with no topmost plane. We don't come into
existence in this world by an infinite number of finite steps; we
come into existence directly from the non-existing, from our
essential nature, apart from any scheme of things.

>Eldon:<This includes both an other form, senses, feelings, thought, etc. But
>our evolution *is here*. We are working on bringing our higher principles
>into consciousness in and through our human personalities.>

>Your confusion continues. We don't "bring our higher principles
>into consciousness" in the physical body which "*is here*."

Not in the physical body, but in the Globe D human ego. The physical
body is not our center of consciousness, it is one of our principles
or basic ingredients of consciousness. Our monadic ray of consciousness
clothes itself in all seven principles here on Globe D.

>Your seem to be confounding the physical and mental. When you say "our
>evolution is here," I will agree only if your "here" refers to this planetary
>chain of 12 Globes.

There is a part of ourselves for which that is true. That part is
higher than the Globe D human ego or what we know as the personality.
It is the "individuality" or the higher human ego. It is a higher ray
of consciousness that we also have active, and exists on its larger
scale of being, spanning the entire planetary chain.

>If you are referring to Globe D, then I strongly
>disagree. Globe D is only for evolving our physical bodies.

Yes, here is where we disagree, because I would include with Globe D
all our seven principles as we know them, as they combine to form our
human personalities, who and what we know as ourselves.

>I think that
>this goes back to earlier discussions on this subject, in which we are using
>totally different models of the planetary chain. I take the model given by
>HPB in the SD as appended by G de P, which is a slight variant of the
>Qabalistic Tree of Life. I am not sure where your model comes from.

I think that both our models are initially based on the same source,
but have taken different turns as we attempted to further understand
how they worked.

>Eldon:<When we take a theosophical group as a seekers' club, ..>

> You seem to have entirely missed my point. I said that we should do
>our seeking outside of any TS.

My reference is to people coming to lodge meetings to share their
individual spiritual quests, and so it was perhaps off the subject
of psychical investigations.

> In your response, you seem to totally disregard the third objective of the
>TS. Would you care to write an article on just how we should accomplish the
>third objective?

The objects of a Theosophical Society are not words of divine
revelation, but simply an attempt to formulate a useful purpose
for the organization as a particular project of the Masters.
We can do or not do anything that is spiritually appropriate.

>Eldon:<It could be argued that the intellectual-spiritual approach is
>the direct one, and an emphasis on the psychic abilities leads
>people to avoid it, rejecting it as theoretical because it may
>seem less tangible than an experience of the senses. >

>Perhaps. But I don't know of anyone who would fit this description at
>all. Most people avoid the intellectual-spiritual approach and seek
>psychism because it is the easier road.

The psychic is fun, seductive, glamorous, and ego-gratifying. Having
experiences or paranormal abilities impresses others much more than
knowing some deeper philosophical truths that may be difficult to talk
about. Why would people want anything different? There comes an inner
hunger for something more to life, and that hunger leads to the path
of wisdom and self-transformation.

> People in general are lazy and don't want to
>be told that the Great Work is one of many lifetimes.

So we don't tell them. Laziness is from a lack of interest. If you
were extremely hungry, you would not find it bothersome to get food.

>Many magicians accept
>HPB's work as a treasure of theory and study it, rather than rejecting it.
> However, they follow a different "path" in that they prefer a faster (and
>more dangerous) route to the slow (but safe) route described in theosophy.

Their path is quicker to other planes, but slower, I'd feel, to awakening
the consciousness of their higher principles.

>Personally, I have nothing at all against such a personal choice, as long as
>this choice is taken at step 3 - after ethics and compassion are firmed
>developed.

We each make our own choices, appropriate to our own lives and needs.
And we cannot force a choice on others that aren't ready to benefit
by it. All we can do is give some form of concrete expression to our
inner life, and discovering how to give this expression is an individual
thing.

-- Eldon