Theos-Talk Archives (March 1995 Message tl00297)

Various comments on various comments by Daniel Caldwell

I want to jot down a number of my comments on what I've been
reading on Theos-l of late.  My comments are food for thought and
nothing else.

I firmly believe that everyone on Theos-l is entitled to their
opinions.

But it would be nice if we could put those opinions aside and
actually discuss a subject in some depth....looking at it from
different angles...  etc.  What are these theos-l postings for if
not to educate ourselves...  expand our horizons.....see a
subject from a different point of view.

Too many of us are too sensitive.  If something said is not to
our way of thinking we huff and puff.

I have also noticed how some of us discount subjects of
discussion by saying:


"X...is boring."

"..who cares..."

"X...is irrevelant."

etc.

Personally I find all the postings and discussions on Theos-l
interesting if not fascinating.

Some of you probably think I only like history.  The teachings
are even more interesting and fascinating.  I have been following
the discussions on the Kaballah, etc.  etc.

Let us all give our opinions.  But to me what is even more
important is your reasoning behind the opinions.  How did you
arrive at that conclusion? Maybe I can gain some insight, learn
something new, be better informed if I can see behind the facade
of the "opinion."

May no one cares if HPB was a virgin or not.  But if you say she
had a child it would be informative to know your sources, how you
arrived at that conclusion, etc etc.? In other words share the
workings of your mind, your insight, etc.  etc.

If someone believes that HPB physically wrote the Mahatma
Letters, I would like to know how they arrived at that
conclusion.  What are the facts, etc.?

On to another subject or two.

Some of us have indicated that history (in general ? or
theosophical?) is pretty boring.  But just remember that history
is all around us, everyday we do historical research whether we
know it or not.  Everyday we reconstruct events and many times
act upon those historical conclusions.  In fact we are creatures
of history.  If reincarnation is a factual process in nature,
then the process of reincarnation interacts with the physical
world and is in a sense a part of history.

History and historical research is not just some academic
pursuit, but one of many ways or methods of searching for truth.
Why downgrade "history" and exalt some other way of gaining
knowledge? Intuition may be a method gaining knowledge, insight.
Clairvoyance may be a way of obtaining knowledge.  But historical
research has its domain too.  Why not use all these methods? In
our search for truth, why discard any method that can help us
discern truth as opposed to falsehood? To be personal for a
second, I have had on many occasions, "mystical experiences" and
I have gained alot from these experiences but intellectual
pursuit of knowledge, historical pursuit of knowledge, etc., all
these things are certainly different ways or avenues to a greater
understanding of the world we live in and of ourselves.

In about a month I plan to start posting criticisms of Paul's
book on Theos-roots.  I hope that some of you who still find that
insights and knowledge can be gained through the study of
history, will find my criticisms useful.  A number of you have
sent me private e-mail messages saying that you have enjoyed
reading my criticisms.

One word on the so-called flaming of Paul's book.  I did a test
and indeed when you apply a flame to Paul's book it ignites and
heat and light is produced!

Criticism, if taken with the proper attitude and frame of mind,
can be productive of heat and light.  Maybe not on the physical
plane, but certainly on the mental plane.

And I hope that Jerry H-E and others will address certain issues
in Paul's book.  Not to have an emotional debate but to address
some of the issues raised in the book.  The book, by the way,
addresses not only historical concerns but other issues involving
the teachings of Theosophy, etc.

Another thought: we live in a world full of falsehood and lies.
(yes, there is another side to the story but....) Joseph Smith
claimed to be in contact with Moroni.  Herbert W.  Armstrong
claimed to be God's only true prophet in these modern times.
Jehovah Witnesses claim to be God's chosen people.  There is an
atheist show on my local cable company and the host of the show
is convinced that there is not God, period, no life after death,
no ESP, just a material world (yes, Madonna's Material world).

I could extend the list another 30 pages giving examples of the
claims and counterclaims filling the airways of our planet.
Billy Graham is planning (has it already happened?) to beam his
"message" to at least 1 billion people.

The fact is, that, to anyone who can somewhat detach himself or
herself and look around and just observe....wow......people are
believing or disbelieving in about every conceivable idea you can
imagine!!!!!!

Yes, every one is entitled to his or her opinion, but if anyone
is interested in putting aside his or her opinions, how do you
even start to begin to discriminate and discern between the false
and true? Are we interested in disovering truth or having
opinions? I personally would put aside 99% of my own opinions for
a few SOLID FACTS, a few truths.

Sometimes I get the impression that us theosophists are more
concerned in having our opinions, in having our right to have
opinions than we are concerned in trying to discover truth.
Personally I want to keep at least one foot on the solid ground
while also having my head in the clouds and also reaching for the
stars.  In other words I love to soar into metaphysical regions
of thought and even beyond to realms of intuition....  but it is
also wise to anchor oneself to the ground, to have a few solid
facts to add perspective.  It seems to me that history and
science can help us to anchor ourselves to tangible facts while
religion and metaphysics and meditation and mysticism can keep us
aware of the clouds and the stars.  Can we really do without all
of these approaches? Is metaphysics better than history? Is
science better than religion? Why not use all these aveneues and
tools in our search for truth?

Someone has commented about scholarship and academic historical
research and the implication was that all that
is....boring....who cares anyway.  But some of the concerns of
scholarship and academic historical research are of practical
value.  To ask someone to cite their sources, to tell where they
got certain information from---has its practical application.,
etc.

Again, some of us on Theos-l has written as though the
Theosophical history is something totally separate from the
Theosophical teachings.  They may be studied separately but are
they really "separate".  I would suggest that history can throw
light and perspective upon the teachings and vice versa.  In all
of HPB's voluminous writings she interweaved teaching with
history.  Why?

I've said too much but maybe I've given some food for thought? I
do hope that maybe in the future discussions on Theos-l will be
more productive, will in fact be a dialogue in which everyone
learns something.  There is so much in Theosophical history that
we can learn from.  There is so much in the Theosophical
teachings that we can learn from.  Let's discuss all of these
subjects and more, without flaming, without freaking out on the
emotional level, without name calling....but listening to other
points of view with which we disagree, asking ourselves if we can
learn something new, challenging our own "precious" beliefs and
assumptions, trying to put ourselves in the other person s shoes!
Isn't that what dialogue is all about?

Daniel

P.S.  This is a rough draft so please read between the lines,
"get the message that I'm sending" and bear with the typos!