Theos-Talk Archives (November 1994 Message tl00022)

You guys are really with it.  I'm learning partly, & partly
refreshing things I used to know.  What a pleasure to read you
all!

Hope it doesn't get confusing, if I just put my 2-cents worth in
in chronological order.

ART P.  "The belief in a hereafter ...  I am hoping to strengthen
my belief in this through my studies in theosophy."

It hasn't really been stated by anyone so far that we believe in
reincarnation.  We consider it the way of evolution of the human
spirit.  One spirit grows a number of bodies, the way a hollyhock
grows a new stem with flowers each year.  You're in the body to
learn, but it's a learning that advances along the spiritual
path.  We believe that we've evloved through mineral, vegetable,
& animal bodies, (repeated by the human foetus) & a regression is
the great exception, one in several million, something of that
proportion.  Our belief is that a long time-span from now we'll
all have evolved into perfected men without any faults, with all
the wisdom, and with no further Karma to work out.

When the body dies its life goes on in a hierarchy of other
realms of being, which are also part of our make-up now ...
first the astral - emotional, then the 2 mentals, lower & upper,
finally devachan where the person is surrounded by all the
positive, loving, beautiful things & people to which it was
related during life in the body.  Someone who loved to study will
find lots of books to learn from etc.; all the people they loved
etc.  Very brief description.  There are stages beyond devachan,
but they're rather unreachable.  There are tomes & tomes on how
reincarnation works.  When the person has digested everything
from their past life, they are ready to redescend into another
incarnation, brought there by the Karma they haven't as yet
learned to work out.  They reincarnate in a body to learn some
more.  Bodies will variously be male, female, of all races, of
all kinds of physical condition, because all of these have to be
experienced & learned before a human being is perfected.

Another view of reincarnation, which appeals to me is that
whatever you manage to learn in this incarnation will be easier
for you to learn again in the next incarnations, and it will also
be easier for someone else to pick up after you've learned it.
Ones learning accrues to oneself & to all mankind.  It's a great
motivator for me to keep on learning & poking into new things
that interest me.

References: Again I know the ones Adyar publishes.  There's a
real nice one by Geoffrey Hodson, describing telepathically how a
foetus develops, don't remember the exact title; a fairly new one
by John Algeo, "Reincarnation Explored"; also a new one by Anton
Grosz, "Letters to A Dying Friend" a Westernized version of the
"Tibetan Book of The Dead"; lots of books by C W Leadbeater about
what experiences on the other side might be like, and what
various states of being might look like.

 To ART P - "Voice" - "Let the disciple slay the Slayer".  As you
 can see ..  lots of interpretations.  One I've heard about is
 that this refers to trying to still the mind when you want to
 meditate, because once you've gotten the hang of stilling the
 mind, you'll be able to listen to the Voice of the Silence
 within you.  Stilling the mind takes training.  You don't
 suppress.  When your mind wanders, you gently bring it back to
 whatever you're meditating on.  You try to sharpen your focus.
 They talk about reaching one-pointedness.

To ART P.  - Addition to my "Silence Comments" of 11-4 re
emotions & detachment.  I mentioned 2 teachers, the one who
taught me to meditate, & the one who taught me to heal (I'm far
from being an expert at either, but I'm trying).  I brought up
their teachings as examples of how one can use emotions.  I
consider both of these men as well advanced along the human
spiritual ladder.  Both are very loving men.  You notice this,
you can feel it.  But it's rather that they love mankind, and you
happen to be there before them, & they deal with you as the
present specimen of mankind who needs their attention.  Then they
go on to the next person who needs their attention.  As far as
attachments are concerned, they both love their wives & families
dearly, which to me are very positive attachments.  I don't think
we'll outgrow that kind of attachment any time soon ...  maybe
when we get back to being hermaphrodites, maybe.

ART P.  - "I-Thou language breaks down in the upper reaches of
mystic experience.  I do, however, remember reading something
very akin to Eastern notion in Meister Eckhart & the Rhineland
mystics"

Are you familiar with Abe Maslow and his account of people's
"peak experiences"? I've always wondered whether they measured up
to the mystical experiences of a Meister Eckhart.

ART P.  11-4 "just a friendly Hi from Art" Let me tell you
something about being sexist.  You thought you were writing to a
male.  I automatically assume the same thing, that I'm writing to
a male, when I write to someone, unless informed otherwise.  It's
the way we've been brought up to think.

I'm just having sort of a research quibble with our library in
Wheaton because it occurred to me that I have all male role
models, and I thought that as a female, I should really have some
female ones.  But I'm looking for female archetype kinds of role
models.  There's Isis who was a goddess after my own heart.  She
took care of anyone who asked for her help, & mothered them.
There's Quan Yin, but I haven't been able to find out too much
about her, she's the Bodhisattva of Compassion.  There's Mary,
but I don't know any more about Mary than that she gave birth to
Jesus, the Christ.  What else does she represent? The library
came up with Theano, the wife of Pythagoras, and a Tibetan lady
Kandro Tsering Chodron, also the Egyptian Hypathia.  There's HPB,
but she was a chela not a Master.  Well, at least the Masters
were training her to become one of them.

I get a lot of mail addressed to "Mr.  Liesel".  To English
speakers, it just seems to sound like a man's name.  The actual
tranlation is "Lizzy".  During the middle ages there was die
Ganse Liesel, the Liesel who minded the geese, and her male
partner is Hans.  Hans und Liesel go together in German folk
stories.  You see, some things have stuck from my German
childhood.

Is your wife's name April?

"The majority of voters in this country are retired and very
conservative minority."

Have you been taking birdseye views of my retirement community? I
thought it was because I was now living in very conservative upstate
New York. Please include me out of that bunch ... also my 98 year-old
friend G.G. We're in favor of "Midnight Basketball" rather than
"building more prisons." There's got to be some sanity amongst us.
Only a few in this building have Altzheimers.

I'm sorry you don't have much hope.  I always do.  I don't dare
have much hope for this election though.  Poor Clinton! Poor us!
I've been watching local debates on C-Span.  Boy they're fighting
filthy dirty, all over the country.  Also issues seem to be the
same nationwide.  Claire & I, & the whole Cosocny membership went
to a Mario Cuomo rally this AM, with hope in our hearts.  Cosocny
is retired people representing various Sr.  Cit.  organization, &
our function is to keep on top of legislation that concerns Sr.
Cit.  at various levels of government.  We then bring it back to
whatever organization we represent.  We meet at the UAW hall, &
most of us are unionists.  Our biggest concern before Summer was
health care.  And my special selfish concern is adding home care
to Medicare.  But I'm also concerned about the violence I've
witnessed around me, especially lately, and I think its roots are
in the non-existent home, which I think should now be
supplemented by community groups who can make up for what's
lacking at home, like decent role models, & meals.  I've also for
a long time favored more popular vocational schools for non-
college bound kids.  I'm also for legalizing drugs, on the
assumption that it will take the profit motive out of the drug
trade, & hence the incentive to entice new kids.  Real easy
answers for multicultural problems.

I'm not too keen to get into how HPB got her material, but does
the fact that she was highly telepathic have anything to do with
it?


You tell about having written a paper on Chaos Theory.  I'd love
to read it, but don't know how to get into the theos-l archives.
Can you tell me how that's done? Also once I've read it, would
you be willing to answer some questions? I got 1 book on the
subject out of the library not too long ago, & it didn't make
much sense.

TO: MARTIN EUSER Re: science/religion/theosophy discussion

Don't know what John Mead's reading list to you consists of.  In
case this fairly new book isn't mentioned, might I suggest "Earth
Energy" by Serge Kahili King, PhD? It's published by the
Theosophical Publishing House (Adyar), Box 270, Wheaton Ill.
60189.

Serge goes into the history of research done on what we call
prana, the Hawaiians call mana, the Chinese chi, and every
researcher covered in the book calls by another name.  There's
also a section on crystals, dowsing, pyramids, Serge's own
research, & hints re some items which still need to be
researched.  I'm trying to remember what else he covers, but
can't.  My ex nephew in law has my copy just now.

The end, I've actually caught up on all of you in 1 evening.
After 5 years of no theosophical discourse you're all a pleasure.

Liesel