Theos-Talk Archives (December 1993 Message tl00063)

To All. First let me say that it is good to hear from Don again.
His recent message on theos-buds concerning the globes and planes
is excellent. I couldn't say it any better. Don is one of the
few people I know who can sit back and see the Big Picture.

To Brenda. Yes, Brenda, Angels do exist. The problem is in
determining exactly where they exist. Some say that they exist
externally in the invisible worlds around us. Others say that
they exist in our own minds (i.e. as psychic projections or
archetypes). Most magicians and occultists take the practical
position that we should act *as if* they exist externally to us
and independent from us. Like the existence of God, you have to
either have faith or not because it can't be proved in the
laboratory one way or the other. I personally believe that the
universe is filled with other living intelligent beings, call
them Angels or whatever you want. In a higher sense, both views
are correct because if you go far enough outwardly, you will find
yourself inward, and vice versa, the two directions forming a
circle.

To Eldon. I agree with much of what you have written concerning
the globes and planes. However, I would like you to explain your
statement that "But the visits are generally one of a feeling of
the influence of the globes, and not an actual physical presence
on them." Also "It is the *higher globes* that are the places,
the worlds, the earths that we will one day have embodied
existence on, e.g. fully developed consciousness in and through a
physical body." These two statements baffle me. Exactly how
does one go about having a physical body on the astral (or
mental) plane? Do you have sources for these statements? Are
you saying that in the future Globe E, for example, will move
down to the physical plane next to Globe D? I confess, I am
confused. Also, to limit all visitations to the globes implies
that you reject the Qabalistic doctrine of interconnecting
pathways. While it is true that HBP said nothing about the
pathways, nor did G de P, I would submit that they do, in fact,
exist and can be visited as well - else one must leapfrog or jump
from one globe to the next.

Some general comments on the globes and planes. The cosmic
planes can be thought of as conditions (I believe that this was G
de P's view), or places (HPB, Leadbeater, and others certainly
considered them to be places that could be visited as well as
inhabited by a multitude of denizens). Both views work. The
assumptions that go into an occult universe model are not
terribly demanding nor are they necessarily numerous. Three are
common to all models: that divinity exists, that divinity is
self-creative and self-manifesting, and that our Earth located on
the physical plane is a lower expression from this divinity with
various other worlds in between. The primary differences in the
models come about in their definitions of these in-between
worlds.

There is a Qabalistic model, a theosophical model, several Hindu
models, several Buddhist models, an ancient Egyptian model and a
Gnostic model, (and nowdays an Enochian Model) to name only the
best known. Why so many models? Because there is no one model
that will appeal or be suitable to everyone. We experience (and
recall/interpret afterwards) the planes and globes according to
our cultural inheritance or worldview. So virtually every
culture will have its own model. So when we hear someone talk
very authoritatively about a globe or sephiroth or invisible
world, we must always remember that they are speaking from the
perspective of a particular model.

We can, and we do (whether we remember it or not), visit these
invisible realms. Those who say otherwise are simply mistaken
(MHO). There are countless recorded cases throughout the occult
literature of every culture. Shananism, nowdays a very popular
topic, involves visits to the astral and sometimes the mental
planes (but I have not yet seen indications of anything beyond
these two). Visiting these worlds is probably the main theme and
practice in every school of magic throughout both east and west
(nowdays it is usually called pathworking). HPB (at the end of
Isis) even goes so far as to give us the key occult principles
involved in such operations.

A very big problem about such visitations lies in what has been
called confounding the planes. Unless you are skilled or have a
great deal of knowledge about such things, you are very apt to
mix up where you are and what is really going on. In my magic
books, I stress the need for signposts (i.e., places or moods or
beings that should be common to all travelers) to keep straying
to a minimum. Such signposts are well known in the Qabala, where
seers have recorded their experiences for many years.

Unfortunately, the Gupta Vidya Model is not as well known and few
signposts exist. I am currently trying to correct this problem.
I would locate Kamaloka along the connecting path between Globes
C and E, and Devachan is on the path between Globes B and F. The
famous Akashic Records are on Globe G (which is in agreement with
hints given by Leadbeater). Our Reincarnating Ego along with the
Silent Watcher are on the path between Globes A and G (as hinted
by HPB), and so on. Of course, such things as localizations have
to be taken with some warnings and some caveates. G de P says
that Devachan, for example, could be located virtually anywhere -
but obviously it must be somewhere on the mental plane.
Nevertheless, if the GV Model is to ever become popular and
certainly if it is ever to compete with the Qabala, then such
defining and limiting is necessary (this is exactly the function
of a model, after all. I would suggest that this is the main
reason that HPB and G de P were reluctant to go any farther in
their definitions of the GV Model). Although most theosophists
seem not to care a wit, or perhaps they desire to retain secrecy,
I like the GV Model better than the Qabalistic Tree and feel that
these former secrets need to be given out publically. It is my
intention to do so.

As I was saying, without signposts one tends to confound the
planes. This probably is what happened with early theosophists
who visited Globes C and D and thought that they were visting the
planets Mars and Mercury. Swedenborg fell victim to this as
well. Without signposts, you can be mislead into a false
interpretation of your experience. Technically it is true that
planes cannot be visited, but rather only the globes and paths.
When you have a dream, you are in your astral (or mental) body,
but it clearly *feels* like a physical body during the dream. It
is only after you wake up that you realize you were visiting the
astral (or mental) plane. And then you will interpret your
experience in terms of your worldview. If your worldview is
materialistic and doesn't allow for a subtle plane, then you will
assure yourself that it was *only* a dream probably induced by
something you ate, and you will go on with your life. What is a
dream if not a visit to one of the invisible globes of our
planetary chain?
                                     Jerry S.