Theos-Talk Archives (October 1999 Message tl00205)

----- Original Message -----
> From: H. C. Dhariwal <hcd@me.iitb.ernet.in>
> Date: Friday, October 15, 1999 6:44 AM
> Subject: Re: What is the Cause of Theosophy?

> Alan,
>
> I am ispired to submit the following for your due consideration after
> reading your thoughts on the aim of theosophy and shall be grateful if
you
> can offer your comments on the same.
>
> Husiar

I will do my best!
>
>  SOME THOUGHTS ON THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEMS FACED BY THE HUMAN RACE
>
>
>  All the problems which are there today as well as in the past, the
>  agonising period of development of humanity, are because of the
historical
>  conditions. The communication was very poor. The technology at the
>  disposal of humanity was very primitive. The religious scriptures
were few
>  in number(perhaps the sole single copy in the possession of the
Rishis and
>  Acharyas, whether of Hinduism, Islam, Budhism, Jainism or
christianity)
>  and were not available for every body to read understand, analyse and
>  practice. The most important goal was to preserve them faithfully and
>  transmit them to future generations.
>
Agreed. Sadly, this has clearly not always been done, and parts have
errors into them due to faulty transmission.  This is certainly true of
the Christian writings with which I am most familiar.

>  The time has now come when we should read, understand and analyse in
an
>  unbiased manner (i.e. scientific manner) to be practiced in the
society at
>  large.
>
A difficult task, but I agree, a necessary one.

>  I am enclosing below some thoughts and facts which have occurred to
me in
>  after reading Bhagwad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam of ISKCON
translation, which
>  are now available in an authentic, As It Is, translation in various
languages
>  of the world.
>
>
>  SCIENTIFIC REALISTIC SPIRITUALISM
>
>   1. Every body on earth whether one lives in the cities or jungles
>   believes  in GOD who created everything including us. The focal
point of
>   every spiritualism is this all encompassing God.
>
This requires a definition of the term, "God."  From my own studies over
many years, I perceive and experience "God" as a continuum of Being, a
universal Totality of Being which some call Spirit or Breath.  As
individual "breaths" of the One Breath, we are continually exhaled and
inhaled.

>   2. That whenever any thing is created, like when we create tv,
fridge,
>   car or any other device, before it is put into users hands detailed
>   instruction manuals are written. One for the user, another for the
service
>   people, third for the repair and maitenance personnel etc.
>
Whilst this is true, such creations are not creations from nothing, but
are essentially the rearrangement of existing parts of a pre-existing
pool of substance(s).  If human beings are being considered here as
analagous to such creations, then the pre-existent pool of substances
from which they are made becomes part of the process.

>   3. When using servicing or repairing these devices we have to follow
these
>   instruction manuals word by word. We know the consequences if we
ignore
>   them or even do not follow them properly.
>
Problems arise here.  Experience shows that even with tv, fridge, etc.,
detailed instruction manuals sometimes contain errors.  The "Instruction
Manuals" for human beings also appear to contain errors, and many
manuals contradict other manuals which also claim to contain vlaid
instructions.

>   4. How is it that the creator of such a big creation has not
supplied us
>   with similar INSTRUCTION MANUALS. HE  has obviously supplied them to
us,
>   but we are ignoring them due to whatever reasons and that alone is
the
>   reason for all the problems afflicting the humanity today.
>
What evidence is there that

1.  Such a creator of a big creation exists?

2.  That if such a creator exists, that creator is "HE," and by such
designation, similar in nature to the human male?

3.  That the suggested creator has personally supplied instruction
manuals for humanity?

>   5. These are the manuals supplied at the beginning of the creation.
From
>   time to time depending on the historic and geographic requirements
of
>   the development of the creation, experts have been sent to steer the
>   course of development of the creation. These are JESUS, BUDDHA,
>   MAHAVIR,MOHAMMAD AND SO ON who have further elaborated on some of
the
>   points which were important for that particulat geographical
location and
>   historical development.
>
Such manuals, commonly called scriptures (writings) of various religions
whose foundations are attributed to persons such as you name, have
clearly been written by human beings, and transmitted through time by
human beings.  There are many problems with this.  Apart from one
letter, the authenticity of which is disputed, and mostly rejected as
false, we have no writings directly attributed to Jesus, for example,
only the writings of those who claim to be his followers, who do not
always agree among themselves.

There is also a presumption in your statement that "creation" has a
"beginning."  If, as is usually or often held, "God" and "Creation" are
"Eternal" then how can Eternity have either a beginning or an end?  The
teaching that it does not means that time is an illusion.  But time is
nothing more than a measurement of the motions of physical matter in
space, *as perceived by human beings.*  As we know from the widely
different accounts given by people of the details of a road accident
which many people have observed, human perception, when it comes to
detail, is extremely unreliable.  That the road accident happened is
agreed by all; how it happened is often not clear to the observers of
it, as they may give conflicting accounts.

>   6. My humble submission is that we should not ignore the original
>   instruction manuals when following the messages of any of the
subsequent
>   messengers. The messages of all of the messengers are also for whole
of
>   the humanity and not confined to a particular sect or religion.

That the persons you mention as examples are messengers is usually a
claim made by them, or for them.  If we are to be scientific, we have to
find a way to verify these claims by asking whoever it is that is
supposed to have sent them if these claims are true.
>
>   In order to root out all the evil from the human society, and usher
in an
>   era of scientific and realistic spiritualism, Universal Brotherhood
>   and live the life for the purpose for which the God has created
us,the
>   instuctions contained in the original instuction manuals together
with
>   the subsequent supplementary manuals should be followed in an
integrated
>   manner. Instead we have divided them all into mine and yours due to
>   various reasons.
>
We have certainly devided the writings of the world religions in this
way, and human beings have gone to war with each other over the "true"
interpretations.  This suggests two things:

1. Human beings are not very good at interpretation, and become
aggressive when their interpretations are questioned (as sen on Theos-L
from time to time).

2. There are possibly major errors, or even falsehoods contained within
the writings concerned,

>   It is also very interesting to note that though every body on earth
>   and all the religions on earth believe in the creator, The God who
has
>   created everything including us, nobody except one person has ever
said
>   that He is the creator who has created everything and given the
scientific
>   details of how He created everything out of the Adi Jal (Eternal
Fluid).
>   I found this information in Bhagwad Gita and Srimad Bhagwatam of
ISKCON.

I too have found useful information and wisdom in English translations
of the Bhagwad Gita, and have been helped by this in my journey through
this life.  Whether it is a true and accurate representation of the
nature of existence, human or otherwise, neither I, nor anyone else, in
my opinion, is able or qualified to say.  What I *can* say on my own
behalf is that your premise must be incorrect, as not every body on
earth believes in a male creator god.  This I can say with authority, as
I am myself such a person.
>
Sorry about that.

With my very best wishes,

Alan :-)

Alan@ambain.softnet.co.uk
http://www.soft.net.uk/ambain/