Re: THEOS-L digest 1551
Jun 07, 1998 07:01 AM
Concerning some of the points you made I beleive that Theosophy is the
Wisdom of the Gods. Ie Advice for Initiates whilst in the stae of unity
consciousness or god-hood. A lit of symbolism becomes apparent when in this
deep meditative state where union with the source is achieved.
However to remain with the source would mean a bodily death. This is
however another of my insane ramblings and as such should be taking with a
pince of salt.
At 11:09 PM 6/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
>Date: Fri, 5 Jun 1998 06:59:59 -0700
>From: "W. Dallas TenBroeck" <email@example.com>
>Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1548 THEOSOPHY FOR THE MASSES
>June 5th 1998
>The report that you make on June 1st concerning THEOSOPHY FOR THE
>MASSES as Krishnamurti viewed it is valuable for us all.
>To my mind there are two things to consider:
>1. Motive. Why does one feel an attraction for Theosophy ?
>and, What does one expect to get out of its study ?
>2. Ability. Do we KNOW what Theosophy is ? and if we do not,
>then how can we promulgate it accurately ? How can we meet
>people where they are and assist with information that they can
>actually use were they now are ?
>It is apparent that Krishnaji had the motive that was the most
>generous, and wanted all to profit from the virtues and benefits
>that a theosophical knowledge gives. He realized that all were
>not at the same level, and had to be met at the level where they
>were. Those who know more have to descend to the level of the
>pupil to help him advance. The mind has to be able to return to
>the "child-state it had lost," without however, loosing its
>Some have an immediate sympathy for those virtues. They then
>look to the doctrines and the metaphysics that Theosophy offers.
>Those provide, when grasped, the reasons that underlie the
>Again, virtues in Theosophy, are not different from those which
>are common to all philosophies and religions, and which are
>innate in everyone without exception. Theosophy gives
>explanations for them. If one takes for a basis the idea that
>Theosophy is universal and fundamental to every great religion,
>it does away with any "elitism."
>How is it that one can travel to any place on the face of the
>earth ? No one knows the actual "laws" of the countries that
>they visit. But if one behaves decently and honestly with the
>people one meets, one does not get into trouble with them or with
>It has always seemed to me that Humanity is one, but somehow it
>has allowed itself to get divided into "haves," and "have-nots."
>Into the "intellectual," and the "practical." Into those who
>think they are an "elite," and those who think they "cannot
>think." Into those who
>"play," and those who "work." And so on, endlessly ... all, are
>useless considerations. Each human is essentially "themselves."
>It is self-knowledge that is important. Theosophy (as anyone who
>reads the KEY TO THEOSOPHY can find out) deals with the knowledge
>of the HIGHER SELF and its 6 vehicles. And when HPB has
>considered and explained what our constitution is, she proceeds
>to show what Practical Theosophy is. As to the basic
>metaphysics, she says :
>Every human is a 7-fold being. A SPIRIT with 6 vehicles: this
>Spirit lives a "separate" life on Earth so as to be of assistance
>in the progress of many younger intelligences ("lives" which are
>in effect its "children"). No being in the whole Universe is
>"unconscious." Every being has an "intelligence" of its own.
>The level of that intelligence marks its particular stage on the
>ladder of evolution. In the KEY TO THEOSOPHY, HPB observes these
>1. Wisdom -- "Buddhi" -- discrimination based on an enormous
>individual antiquity and a memory of those experiences impacted
>in the eternal Akasa that surrounds us all.
>By nature it is Universal, Giving, Compassionate, Wise and helps
>all being around us. It Knows the Law of the Universe - Karma.
>It is the "vehicle" of the Spiritual RAY that is present in each
>being and is receiving (as an independent mind) its final
>instruction in the human kingdom. In mankind it learns to be
>powerfully cooperative. To the extent that it is cooperative,
>its powers grow. Harmlessness to others is the key. It is not
>2. "Manas" -- the Mind and the Mind Powers: reason, memory,
>perception, anticipation (inference), fancy (misconception).
>The Mind (as a unit of power) has the ability to ally itself with
>Wisdom -- and therefore can be called in that condition:
>"virtuous." Or, the "Higher Mind." One of the great qualities
>of the Higher Mind is that it considers universal ideas and is
>"impersonal." It values the "Heart." This is cooperation as a
>matter of observation and practice.
>Or it can ally itself with isolation, a selfishness produced by
>the "Desire Nature." In which case, it is called the "Lower
>Mind." And in that second state (and we are all in that
>condition, when awake) it isolates itself and is "selfish." It
>is the base for egotism.
>At some point the "Lower Mind" realizes that virtue is superior
>to "vice." It becomes aware of the "moral equation." It
>perceives that "brotherhood" is better than loyalties that
>"separate," and are placed by it on religion, family, nation, and
>itself as "survival" -- in fact that universality is the rule of
>all true life.
>3. "Kama" -- Desire & passions. Wants and needs. The feelings
>of a thousand kinds ( as separate from the mental powers which
>give them personal life ).
>This quality arises from the perfection of that which in animals
>is called "instinct." It focuses on the preservation of the
>present "self." It considers itself as the only important
>thing -- and this gives rise to the false concept of "elitism."
>[ It seeks others of like nature, to join together, and form a
>self-defensive cadre -- and we have sects, creeds, political
>parties, etc. ]
>As a faculty "desire-Kama" cannot look into the future (as hope)
>without the help of the mind faculties of "anticipation and
>memory." When these two are joined we have the "Lower Mind."
>The "personality" which is intensely "selfish" "hopes" it will be
>able to enjoy in the future whatever it selects as actions that
>will lead it to a situation of pleasure and ease. This operates
>in us all the time.
>4. We find that there is a universal "Life-principle" which
>animates us all, everywhere. Vitality is one of its names its
>names, and over the space of a day, we "loose" it. and recuperate
>its energy by a change of activity, rest, sleep, eating,
>drinking, etc... The vitality works in the body, and in the
>instinctual, feeling nature as well as the mind. It is
>universal, all beings of whatever kind bathe in it.
>5. The "Astral Body" and "the "causal" formative side of
>Nature. All beings have an "astral" or pattern body. This
>underlies the physical body. It is called recently, the
>"bio-genetic-field." On this electro-magnetic lattice the
>physical molecules and cells, etc. align themselves.
>It is here that the many "atomic elements" form their basic
>sub-atomic patterns, and cause their properties to become
>uniform. It is at this level that we find "randomness" in action,
>Here is the root of all "beings" of the Universe -- the
>infinitely "small" are mirrors of the vast whole. But what we
>think of as "randomness" is the operation of selective
>intelligence at that level.
>Place yourself mentally on a very high building (like the empire
>State Building) and look down at the activity in the streets
>below, the flow of traffic of all kinds -- cars, people, busses,
>and their moving and stopping, the interchange at intersections
>for apparently no reason, the way vehicles and people avoid each
>others or meet for a while only to move on again. To the
>observer, given no base of similarity the whole pattern appears
>random -- fractals in motion. It is only when we place ourselves
>at their level that we see the "cause" for all the activity and
>the rules that regulate it.
>6. The physical body. The "carrier" of the Mind. The field
>where "feeling, passion and desire work." Constantly changing,
>as we know it, but retaining the faculty of continuity with only
>very slow changes over a life-time.
>What holds it together and directs the molecules and cells to
>their appropriate places ? What is it that makes for the entire
>cooperative system that our physical body is ? How does it
>happen that we, the "Intelligence" that uses the body comes to
>reside in it ? Why do we need to pay relatively so little
>attention to our bodies ? Respiration, the beating of our hearts
>and circulation of blood, digestion, nutrient distribution and
>waste disposal systems all operate without our conscious
>awareness. Why ? How ?
>These 6 "principles" are the tools of the 7th the Synthesizing
>Unit. The SPIRIT in man, called ATMA -- and, as a "ray" it is
>one with the Universal SPIRIT.
>It, the Spirit within, is the basis for Brotherhood. There is no
>"elitism" in the spirit, only a vast and all inclusive
>benevolence, that some have called "Ananda" or "bliss." It is the
>alternate to the isolation of selfishness, isolation and
>With this in mind, how can a knowledgeable Theosophist be
>otherwise than practical and ready to serve ?
>Mankind is of many stages of learning. From the childhood of a
>burgeoning mind, to the all-inclusive wisdom of a Great Master of
>Wisdom. Everything is a united system of learning. Hence we
>have reincarnation as a process. The spirit that is each human
>in its essence never "dies." But it continues as the educational
>center for the rest of the elements that make up our personality.
>The monitor that assists every one is WITHIN. It is the Higher
>It is the conjoined UNIT: Atma-Buddhi-Manas.
>Now let me consider for a moment the statement that Mr. Judge
>made concerning the "imitating" of the Masters.
>The reason is to be found in the above Theosophical explanation.
>Once that we know what the Nature of the Master's wisdom is and
>that it is a potential that we also have we ought to emulate,
>copy, imitate their ways in our life, if we can.
>It is a life lived according to Karma, according to the work of
>the Higher Mind, according to benevolence, harmony, tolerance,
>generosity and sharing with others. It is life with a purpose.
>Some find they can study with ease. Others find it difficult and
>have to struggle to make their personality do this. it is
>uniting with others and not remaining in isolation. It is the
>practice of virtue all the time.
>Some have great "heart." They do not want to study and they
>reach out to others to help wherever they may be. They are, in
>effect, by tolerance and generosity, Theosophists unaware. But
>they need to know how and why they do this spontaneously. They
>need to "cultivate" the mind.
>Some help with logic and explanations, others help practically.
>"Hands on," is operating in either case. One is mental and the
>other is practical. Both are needed. The hands and the heart
>have to work together. this as humanity, is what we are all
>learning to do. We are the cells and the molecules of the GREAT
>UNIVERSAL MAN. As independent intelligences, we are learning
>where we ought to be and what we ought to do. We do not abase
>ourselves, but we become more vibrantly aware of what we CAN DO.
>The place is irrelevant. We are a necessary part of the whole
>and we will always be needed.
>In between "wisdom" and "foolishness" is the mind and the
>personality. Here is where "elitism" springs up. Some employ
>their mental abilities to think about "words," and some think
>Some worry about their position and how others "regard them;"
>and they forget to do the work they are needed for. True
>priorities are reversed and general harmony is upset.
>In steps the Law of Karma to bring a return to balance, and we
>have an educative (not a punitive) effect that focuses on the
>person who made the disturbance, with a view to getting them to
>use their minds and observe how they were the cause of that
>problem to begin with.
>Thus, only the person or being who created the problem can now
>Orientalists and specialists who read ancient tongues and delve
>into ancient manuscripts are constantly confronted with words.
>How is the reader to interpret them ? Is the ancient context the
>same as our modern one ? Can we be impersonal and detached ?
>This is the constant problem of a translator. How to translate
>accurately without loosing the sense of the original writer.
>Words are the envelopes for the "inner sense." To bring that
>meaning into new words is a battle. Some are convinced that
>there is an "old Theosophy," and what they would like to see a
>more familiar idiom used. They would they think, feel more
>comfortable if a "new way of expressing it" is used. Fine. But,
>without a knowledge of the "old theosophy," how are they to
>become interpreters ?
>People are in a hurry. They do not realize that all changes
>begin interiorly. As any change, to be valuable, begins with
>instruction and study, so Theosophy needs to be studied. To be
>time conserving, then, the only logical place is to go to the
>SOURCES of Theosophy and for us that means : H.P.BLAVATSKY.
>The value of Theosophy, as I see it, is that it is broad enough
>to provide reasons for virtuous living, and, it gives an
>understanding of meaning -- if one broadens the mind to include
>the implication of the words used. I realize that this is very
>vague. But there is no other way of expressing it.
>The analyst seeks to derive interior meaning from the quality and
>nature of the actual words used. In dong this he may loose the
>perspective of the over-all picture.
>Is this not what Krishnamurthi was trying to explain ?
>Best wishes, Dallas.
>From: firstname.lastname@example.org <email@example.com>
>To: Multiple recipients of list <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Date: Tuesday, June 02, 1998 8:07 PM
>Subject: THEOS-L digest 1548
>> THEOS-L Digest 1548
>>Topics covered in this issue include:
>> 1) theosophy for the masses and for the intellectuals
>> by M K Ramadoss <email@example.com>
> SNIP --
>Date: Sat, 6 Jun 1998 02:27:21 +0100
>From: "Dr. A.M.Bain" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Subject: Re: THEOS-L digest 1548 THEOSOPHY FOR THE MASSES
>W. Dallas TenBroeck <email@example.com> writes
>> Those who know more have to descend to the level of the
>>pupil to help him advance.
>Those who know more have to revisit the level of the pupil to help
>her/him understand and learn. It's not a hierarchy nor a power game.
>Those who know more, in esoteric matters, *want* to help those who
>know less as a matter of course.
>> The mind has to be able to return t>
>You have wonderfully presented the outline of Theosophy. Each one of us is
>different and with different levels of understanding and widely varying
>interests. So long as we keep in our minds our eager interest/passion in
>helping others at all times and in all things we do, whatever approach we
>take, we will find better understanding and better opportunities. If we are
>not always looking, how are we to find opportunities when they stare at us.
>At 07:50 PM 6/5/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>>June 5th 1998
>>The report that you make on June 1st concerning THEOSOPHY FOR THE
>>MASSES as Krishnamurti viewed it is valuable for us all.
>>To my mind there are two things to consider:
>>1. Motive. Why does one feel an attraction for Theosophy ?
>>and, What does one expect to get out of its study ?
>>> big clip<<<<
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