Theos-Talk Archives (December 1996 Message tl00204)

Art House (TTT) writes:
>Your statements are harmful in that it downplays the prejudices women
>have encountered and are still encountering.  The scale of equality is
>still detrimentally unbalanced for women.  Yes, women would like to say
>that we are powerful as far as opportunities go, but unfortunately, that
>is generally not the case.  If you look at the corporate, political, and
>even the art world, you can see that it is still a boy's club.  Perhaps

Downplays?  I don't understand.  What about the fact that the prejudices men
face have encountered and are still encountering have been downplayed for
years.  For instance, if I want a job as a secretary, I probably won't get it
because I am a man.  If I want to be a bank teller.  Well, I can pretty much
forget about that too.  And you can't say it is because the "boss" is male
and, therefore, wants a female secretary/teller.  The boss i.e. manager does
not often do the hiring.  It is the teller supervisor (which is usually a
woman) or, in the office environment, a group of three people who decide who
is hired.  As a man (hypothetically speaking), I have a very poor chance of
getting an entry level job in an office  or bank.  Most men are pigs, I won't
deny that. A male CEO will usually want a good-looking female secretary to
work for him.  This is true.  This is what proves my point.  A female CEO will
refuse to hire a male secretary because she feels that she would be inhibiting
the rise of women in the job market if she did so.  Damn, I'm stuck.  What do
I do?  I'll go complain to social services.  Sure, that'll work.  Bummer.
Nine out of ten social workers are women.  *snap*, oh well, I'll try anyway.
Hmmm...nope sorry, can't help you there sir.  Good luck!  That's what happens
to men.  Enough people on this ng talk about the oppression of women.  I don't
think any of us have to worry about it being downplayed.  I have a few more
things to say however, on this subject.  Particularly regarding custody
battles and welfare and medical research...I think you probably know what I'm
getting at.

>you should have narrowed your statement.  For example, "for ages,"
>you've been around for ages?  You know that the woman has been "the
>manipulator, the protector, the power" for that long?  Instead of saying
>man is weak and woman is the protector, you should have stated, "My wife
>protects me because I am weak, and she beats me senselessly if I
>disagree with her."

First of all, I don't have a wife, unfortunately.  And please don't take
advantage of that statement like I think you may by saying something like "No
wonder, with the way you feel about issues like this".  And I don't need to
have lived for ages to realize that women of powerful influence have been
"hidden behind the political scenes" in the past.  The world has access to
books, diaries and biographies which allow us to "live" in those ages and see
what occurred then.

I am not saying that men are not guilty of sexism and domination over females.
 I am saying that women are not innocent of the same.  We talk and talk about
the issue of dominating men, but ignore the issue of manipulating women, and
vice versa (dom/man).  By only showing one side of the whole issue at hand, we
fool ourselves in thinking we can solve the problem.  In order to solve it, we
need to address both issues, and stop accusing one another.  Self-explanation
is more efficient than general accusation.  I think that if we all just stated
WHY we did certain things instead of stating why we THINK others do certain
things, we'd get a lot more done a lot faster.

>TTT:
>>Boo-hoo-hoo-hoo.  I feel so sorry for you men.  Try growing some
>>ovaries, then maybe you can join us women in being the manipulator, the
>>protector, and the power.

I don't need ovaries.  I don't want them.  Especially if you feel that they
are the sole cause of manipulation and dominance.  I don't want to manipulate
other people.  I don't want to dominate other people.  I don't want power.  I
am quite sure of what I don't want.  I have yet to find out what I do.

>The Triaist:
>>Case #1
>
>TTT:
>Case #1a.  You must have grown some ovaries! S=o)

Nope, not yet:)

---
The Triaist