Theos-Talk Archives (November 1996 Message tl00511)

Richard writes:
> Forget the people of the past; I still find it intriguing that ~I~ was
able to think of terms like brotherhood~ and ~mankind~ for so many decades
("for-so-long junk") and never doubt for a second that they also included
women.

How is it possible that I, for not so many decades, have never thought the
term "brotherhood" genuinely meant to include women? - it suggests to me a
very reluctant and resistant welcoming.

>Was I stupid or something, Kym?  [The crowd murmurs in disbelief as Tyson's
opponent drops
>his guard.]

Oh, MAN, why do you tempt me with this? :-) [by the way, I prefer Sugar Ray,
we all know what Tyson thinks about women :-( ]

>R.I.-->
>In other words "female writers" could be those who are still tainted by the
>desire/emotional nature arising from one type of "hormonal package" and "male
>writers" from another.

Why do you tempt me with this, too?

>You're probably right:  I had some anxieties about the fact that HPB might
>have been as stupid about the ~brotherhood~/~mankind~ language problem as I
>was.  However, since I said ~may~, it can at the most only be a whopper
>~possibility~, not a "conclusion."

HPB has more of an excuse to have been "stupid" here anyway (with women just
beginning to be heard in her time), you, on the other hand, have more
knowledge and understanding of social progression in this area (language).
Why must we insist that HPB know everything, answer everything, before we
move ahead?

>R.I.-->
>A little punctuation lesson from the RANDOM HOUSE HANDBOOK for you, Kym:  "It
>may be necessary now and then to put a word within quotation marks to show
>that you don't share a certain attitude [p.293]."  Thus, ~my~ quotation marks
>around "male problem-solving."  (I even put ~so-called~ in front of "female
>pattern-following" to further alert readers.)

I did not glean from your post that you did not share the "attitude."

>My point was that even with any such presumed differences, it is my
personal >observation that the sexes seem to grow more alike as they age,
from wherever >they may have started (my mother and father, for example,
even having sort of >reversed their roles in many respects somewhere along
the line).  Golly gee, >Kym, you don't have to prove to me that you were
BORN with every famous and >wonderful quality. . . .

Perhaps you noticed I said "all women," and not "Kym," which is what this is
all about. I see the sexes shedding their restrictive "gender" roles while
they are young today.  It is not true that people develop these "famous and
wonderful qualities," but that they simply SET THEM FREE.  Past generations
had this luxury only when they reached late adulthood.  So no, I don't agree
it (qualities) has anything to do with age. (do I smell ageism, albeit
reversed?)

>R.I.-->
>No, I have to disagree with you here, Kym.  I have always thought that HPB
>would have liked me a lot.  For one thing, we both probably belong to that
>ever-shrinking "Brotherhood" (remember the lesson on quotation marks) which
>seems to refuse to look at the the world either tunnelled-visioned down
>through the urethra or with the mere, winking glance of the vagina. . . .

Don't get me started on the body parts.  For the gadzillionth time, this
isn't a woman thing, it's an equality thing, a respect thing, a humanity
thing.  And you know, when it is recognized as such, the word "brotherhood"
will be gone and replaced with something that truly emcompasses all of
humanity. When something is perceived as a "woman thing" it's much easier to
ignore - which is why it's often used as a delay tactic.

>Actually, I can picture HPB dressing my head wounds with great solicitude and
>affection after I have had one too many "genteel" discussions with ~you~,
>Kym.

This girl sees blatant smackings of sexism (maybe worse) in your post. And
it pushed this girl's buttons, big time.  And I am sure the more refined
women on this list would have dealt with you much more kindly and
diplomatically.

Your post was not "genteel."  My post was not "genteel."  The term
brotherhood is not "genteel."  I'll dress my own wounds, thank you.

pax vobiscum,

Kym