Theos-Talk Archives (July 1996 Message tl00827)

In message <199607302231.AAA17398@mail.euronet.nl>, Martin_Euser
<euser@euronet.nl> writes
>According to Blavatsky
>we (as 'animal' monads) have come from the moon, so this is not ex nihilo.
>She doesn't say what 'we' were before that.

I guess we can take it or leave it - the moon bit.  Personally I leave
it.
>
>The *evidence* suggests that the
>development (spiritual or whatever) is actually getting "worse" -
>certainly nastier.
>
>        Well, I'm not too sure of that. Certainly there are many nasty
>things going on, but yet I see also counter-developments on a global scale
>as well as on a smaller scale. It could be a transitory phase humanity 
>is currently in (let's hope for the better :)

There have always been counter=developments, don't you think?  Just as
there have always been "wars, and rumors of wars"? [Jesus in Matthew's
Gospel].
>
>Past life recall can be achieved by hypnotic regression methods,
>sometimes with spectacular results.
>
>        What are these spectacular results?

You mention one yourself, but I have noticed, in reading accounts of
hypnotic regression as reported by hypnotists and researchers, that the
results can clearly be affected by the views held by the hypnotist, so
that as a method it is unreliable.  The best "evidence" is that which
comes unbidden and can be validated *afterwards*.

>Alan>  However, dramatic though such
>evidence can be, there are alternative and viable alternatives.  Ian
>Wilson, wrote a book called "Time out of Mind" which offers some of
>these, as does some of the work of hypnotic regression researchers.
>
>        Can you give examples of viable alternatives?

OK.  In this book, there is an account of a subject who gave accurate
details about a number of things in the "past life" and which included a
picture of a complicated diagram (in color) of an esoteric nature in a
language the subject did not know.

The hypnotist conducting the research was not seeking to "prove" or
"disprove" past life recall (whether reincarnation was implied or not)
and so sought further verification from the same subject, taking a
different approach.  In short, under hypnosis, the same subject was
asked if she had seen this diagram in this life, and if so where.  It
came to light that she had - in a book which was being perused by
another person next to her in a library reading room.  With more
questioning, the source was actually found in the book concerned.
>
>*I have past life memories* which could fit the TS model, but which also
>support the Indian evidence, as well as an alternative explanation, eg,
>that I can recall a past life, with all the sense of personal memory
>which such experiences give, BUT the life recalled is not necessarily
>any form of "me" at all, but the memory pf a past life belonging to the
>person whose life it was - I am experiencing that memory "out of time."
>
>  This is the most interesting part to me:
> 
>  - what reincarnates (manas?)

In this terminology, I cannot say, except that certainly not manas!
Buddhi? 50/50 on that.  A piece of atma perhaps :-)
>
>  - what happens to the personality after the human being dies?
>    (is it dissolved or is there some continuance like many spiritualists say-

I think this is likely - my experience suggests it is probable, but how
to confirm it? Can't be done by "earth" standards.
>        
>  - Memories of previous reincarnations: you say that you experience these
>    'out of time'. If your memory is out of time, is it also out
>    of space? Do you think time is something bound to sensory input and
>    processing, but not an intrinsic thing on itself?
>
Yes. Time is a measurement of movement in space, that's all.
>
>Insofar as I do not consider karma to be anything other than cause and
>effect (I bang my thumb with a hammer, it hurts).  OOB experience and
>Near death experience suggest that individual "karma" - the consequences
>of my own actions in this life - are dealt with and absorbed at the end
>of this individual life - the "judgement."
>
>        Yes, but is karma being carried over into another manifestation?

I don't think so, no.
>
>As I've said before on theos-l, karma means "There ain't no such thing
>as a free lunch."
>        
>        Agreed. That would imply that effects, not manifested in this life,
>would manifest in another life?

I think you pay at the checkout.

> And that these 'seeds' or tendencies remain
>latent in the auric egg or Field of consciousness-life-matter?
>
No.

>Could you elaborate a bit more
>on that? I also asked some questions above on your view on spiritualist
>experiences on what happens when the soul leaves the body. It's not really
>clear to me whether they think that the personality dies and doesn't reincarnate
>or what?

Nor me, but I do think that the personality dies and doesn't
reincarnate.

> I have read several accounts of spiritualists about Summerland,
>astral spheres, mental spheres, spirit guides, etc. These accounts seem to
>suggest that the astral body continues for a long time to live in several
>spheres (and some spiritualists do teach reincarnation although it is not clear
>to me what exactly reincarnates in their view: astral soul/body or what?)

Not to put too fine a point on it, I think they are glamourising their
findings.  One question here is what do you understand by "astral body?"
>
Alan
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