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Re:Historic Jesus

Jul 24, 1996 02:16 PM

Jerry, referring to epistle of Paul 1Tm6:13 that states that Jesus lived 
under Pilate, you argued two possibilities: 1) mention of Pilate may be 
an allusion to baptism, so without any historical value 2) 1Tm was never 
written by Paul, this letter is a forgery. Making so, you argues that Jesus
lived one century sooner as stated in Sepher Toldoth.

In this e-mail I collect some arguments to prove that even if 1 Tm was not 
written by Paul, surely this letter reflect his doctrine, and this 
letter is present in primitive canons of the church.

Elaine Pagels in "Adam,Eve and the serpent",1988 chapter I,page 52 states 
that scolars recognice that Paul wrote only Romans,I and II Corinthians,
Galatians,Filipenses,I Tessalonics and Filemon. Scholars refused the 
authenticity of I and II Timoty, and Titus, and there is doubts about 
Efesians, Colossians and II Tessalonics. Pagels reject epistle of Hebrew. 
(H. Koester, History and literature of early christianity,Berlim/New York,
1980 vol 2,97-147 and 261-307; M.Dibelius and H.Conzelman, The pastoral 
epistles, Philadelphia,1972; McDonald, The legend and the apostle).

Daniel Rops a catholic historian, at LEglise des apostres et des Martyrs,
Paris,1948 chapter II, page 68 refers to E.Osty that published the epistles
of Paul t 1943 and states: "the most part of scholars non-christians refuse
to recognice I and II Timoty, Titus, Efesians, II Tessalonics, and Hebrews 
the autorship of Saint Paul, even though ascribe some fragments of variable
importance. There  is no doubt that really there is difference of style, 
language and dogmatic concerns. But these differences can be explained by 
variability of situations and the topics broached, by conditions that Paul 
wrote, and prodigious maliability of his character".

Rops recognices even the authenticity of Hebrews, and follows the argument 
of Marcel Jousse (Judahen,Judeen,Judaistre,daus le milien etnique 
palestinien, at magazine LEthnographic n38, 1946) and says chapter II, 
page 99: "Paul would have dictated the letter at aramaic, and with this 
text, a disciple would have written the epistle of Hebrews. The result is 
a work of greek technique that reveals a master at helenic language-that is,
very different from others epistles from Saint Paul.".

In process of martirs at Scili, about 180 AD at Africa, 
one accused, called Esperato, when interrogated about some books that were 
find with him, he said that it were the "holy books and epistles of Paul, 
a just". (Rops,253 and Hanozin, Les geste des martyrs, Paris,1935).

The fourteen epistles of Paul can be found in most of primitive canons
of the church. The canon Muratori, considered the first extant of NT canon, 
published at 1740, is a manuscript that date century VI or VII. This document 
is a catalog written around 200 at Rome. It relates the canon of the church 
of Rome, that is exactly the same of today's canon (with exception of epistles
of Peter and James). Many others canons also includes ALL 14 epistles of 
St Paul: epistle of Athanasius taken from the XXXIX festal epistle
(Found translated in Vol.IV, of Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers (2d
series), pp.  551 and 552.) Augustine, On Christian Doctrine,II,8 (397A.D). 
Synod of Laodicea (343-381AD) canon LX. (This Canon is of most questionable
genuineness and rejects Revelations of John), Council of Carthage, 397
canon  XXIV., Council of Hippo, 393 Canon xxxvj, Eusebius of Caesarea 340 
(Ecclesiastic History III,XXV - After them is to be placed, if it really 
seem proper,the Apocalypse of John, concerning which we shall give the 
different opinions at the proper time. These then belong among the accepted 
writings.Among the disputed writings, which are nevertheless recognized by 
many, are extant the so-called epistle of James and that of Jude, also the
second epistle of Peter, and those that are called the second and third of 
John, whether they belong to the evangelist or to another person of the same
name), Codex Vaticanus (350) and Codex Sinaiticus (350), Vulgata 


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