Re: Tourists and Pilgrims (Reply to Alexis)
Jul 02, 1996 00:46 AM
by alexis dolgorukii
At 04:08 PM 7/1/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Tourists and Pilgrims (Reply to Alexis)
>I think we have a basic disagreement over the purpose of the
>spiritual in the world.
This is quite true, and it's such a basic disagreement, that we are having a
great deal of difficulty in communicating. I really do believe that you are
mystified as to why I say the things I do. I too must try harder to
communicate exactly WHY I feel the way I do about things you say, and try to
describe very clearly what it is that inspires me to see your words in the
light I do.
I see it as leading everyone, over time,
>to the Path, to inner transformations that raise them above the
>everyday life of the mundane world. I see our duty, as students
>of the spiritual, to work on ourselves and to share whatever
>we've been fortunate enought to have enter into our lives.
You have just indicated the primary difference between our views of the
cosmos. I have been anything but reticent in making known that I am a
Shaman. Now I fully accept the fact that you may not view that as anything
but hallucination, but it is absolutely valid to me. What it means is that I
view everything as an energy field, and I view that energy field as spirit.
Therefore to me, spirit is the Only reality, and physical entities and
beings are both part of that "spirit" and acted upon by it. I maintain that
there is no such thing as "THE" path, but that all things proceed along a
"line of development" that is appropriate to that entity or thing. Being
part of spirit, and when one actually becomes aware of that fact,
demonstrating that is not a "duty" but simply the reality of ones being. We
are not "students of the spiritual" we are each an individual field of force
and the intelligences intrinsic to that force act upon us to further that
development. It cannot really be shared, because it is intrinsic to each
>I'm not sure why you think that I consider myself so advanced,
>nor why you read contempt into my words. Perhaps I'll need to
>write more skillfully in the future, because I'm neither feeling
>nor intending to communicate such feelings.
Eldon: It is becoming quite obvious to me that you are entirely insensible
as to why you sound the way you do to me. I am beginning to accept the idea
that you perhaps don't consciously intend to sound as self-satisfied as you
do. But let me give you an instance: You say above: "I see our duty, as
students of the spiritual, to work on ourselves and to share whatever we've
been fortunate enough to have enter into our lives". Now, you probably don't
mean it that way, but identifying yourself as a "student of the spiritual"
seems to be an effort to set yourself, and those like you, aside form other
lesser folk, in that you perceive that you have "duties" toward them, like a
parent has duties to a child. You also regularly use phrases like "subtle
meanings" and "deeper knowledge" and "Ancient Wisdom " and "Mystery Schools"
all of which clearly imply that: "I know something you don't know". Do you
see how that impression could arise in someone reading your words? You alos
seem to reject out of hand any one's methodology that differs from yours and
from Core Theosophy. Now you say you don't' do so, but then you turn right
around and clearly demonstrate that you do.
>I'm also for sharing with everyone, to the extent that their
>interest allows. I'm not for labelling someone as "ok" or "not
>ok" and then using that to decide if they're entited to benefit
You may very well not be doing so, but Joy Mills certainly is. She and I
have been totally opposed to one another since 1973, because I believe, and
acted upon that belief, that theosophy was a "big tent", and totally
eclectic, and wanted to take advantage of the broad public interest at that
time into metaphysics to help the society to grow. You cannot imagine how
roundly and soundly I got "put down" and she made it very clear that to her,
and to the people around her (The E.S>) there was not such thing as
theosophy and that The Theosophical society was not for the "rif raf". If
you don't feel that way, and you claim not to, then you needs must distance
yourself from those who do.
>There's no "disease" associated with the theosophical doctrines
>-- rather the reverse. I find a connection through them with
>healing, uplifting, informing, and nourishing processes within.
>Perhaps you may find yourself sickened by the words and exoteric
>ideas used to convey the doctrines? If so, it could be that your
>reaction is to dirty wine bottles, not realizing the special
>vintage held within?
Once again Eldon: The kind of verbiage in the above paragraph is exactly
what I am talking about. I think I have made it abundantly clear that I
regard all religion as an imposition on humanity and, in many ways a
"disease". When the speculative hypotheses that are intrinsic to theosophy
are transmogrified into "doctrine" which to me is a synonym for "Dogma" then
Theosophy becomes a manifestation of religion and it too becomes an
imposition . Please explain to me EXACTLY what you mean when you say: "I
find a connection through them with healing, uplifting, informing, and
nourishing processes within".
>I don't understand how you would think that anyone with even a
>slight benefit from the spiritual wouldn't feel obligated to
>share it somehow? This wanting to share is both a mission and a
>duty and only grows stronger over time, and it not a sign of
>disease or sickness, nor proof that one is deluded. No. It's a
>natural result of filling one's life with spiritual contents and
>the natural desire to share that arises therefrom.
Once again it's a good example of how we differ. I believe that every single
sentient life form in the unified field of energy that is the reality of our
cosmos benefits from spirit all of the time. I don't believe in "things
spiritual", but in the intrinsicness of spirit to all that is. What is
"spirit"? It is energy masking itself as intelligence-intelligence masking
itself as energy, and it is all that is, was, or ever will be. To me the
term "spiritual" is a human affectation that is used primarily to avoid the
perception of the reality of ONLY spirit. One doesn't have to "share it"
one is born a part of it and automatically and insensibly shares it every
moment of one's existence both carnate and excarnate. The "Mission and Duty"
to share the perceptions one has intellectually gained, which may be of the
apperceptions of others, or then again may only be the "passing on"of those
others perceptions of the ideas and theories of still others further back in
time. This "mission and duty" as led to the most incredible mass of
oppression, repression, and hatefulness. You must surely know that
Torquemada and Savanarola both felt exactly as you do. They too had a
"mission and duty". How many people died and otherwise suffered because of
One thing that a Shaman knows, and finds out early on, is that one does NOT
"fill one's life with spiritual contents", but that one's life is an
expression of spirit and it fills you on it's terms. You, or I, ar anyone,
has nothing to do with the process. Spirit, makes itself obvious to the
human consciousness on its own terms, not those of any individual human
>Your evaluation of my message leaves me puzzled. I make no
>exclusive claim to the theosophical doctrines, and I speak of
>thousands of approaches to the Path. I mention that the highest
>responsibility that each of us faces is to tred the Path and to
>share what treasures we find with others. How is that smug,
>self-satisfied, and monstrously self-righteous?
Eldon, there are many people, not simply Shamans, but Zen Roshis and others
who would say that it is totally pretentious to pretend to have anything to
share with anyone. Once again, it is the aura of "I know something that you
don't know" that gives the impression you find so dismaying. Perhaps it is
good that we are going through this oh so painful process of sharing views.
Perhaps you are hearing things you've never heard before, and perhaps ( I
hope so) I am learning not to be so quick to dismiss others. I had never
believed that you cared a "tuppence" for my opinion, now I perceive that you
do. I cannot tell you how gratified I am.
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