Theos-Talk Archives (June 1996 Message tl00313)

On Wed, 5 Jun 1996, Jerry Hejka-Ekins wrote:

>
> >MKR: From what I have read and known from a friend who had known
> >him for a long time, K never owned any car or for that manner
> >anything except his clothing, a wallet and a couple of Patek
> >Phillipe watches. I am sure the Benz you saw was not owned by
> >him.
>
> JHE
> Doss, you are splitting hairs.  But technically, you are correct,
> Krishnamurti did not own a car or anything else outside of
> personal items.  Everything is owned by KFA, a non profit
> corporation dedicated to publishing everything K uttered.  But if
> you think that K lived in poverty or was materially deprived in
> any way, you are very mistaken.  Actually, I think having full
> use of everything one needs and desires, yet having everything
> belong to a non profit corporation is better than owning
> anything.  You get free use of everything yet you don't have to
> buy it, pay taxes on it or even pay for its upkeep.
>
> MKR
> >He always used to travel in First Class and he was asked why he
> >did so when Gandhi travelled in Third (Lowest) Class. His
> >response was that he would like to see everyone travel in First
> >Class. An incident that Ravi Ravindra witnessed (and has written
> >about) showed that K was at ease in most affluent surroundings
> >as well as in the most simplest ones which should not be
> >overlooked.
>
> JHE
> Which very well makes my point.  Krishnamurti was not one who
> sacrificed any personal comforts.  To say the least, he lived in
> far better material comfort than the average American wage
> earner.  He was at ease in affluent surroundings because those
> are the surroundings he has lived in since he was taken into the
> TS's care.  Krishnamurti was a globe trotter from childhood.
> These kind of people become very sophisticated about being at
> ease in all different surroundings.

MKR:
I think there is an aspect that is relevant. If K had a full-time job as
a worker in a factory or some other place so that he is tied up with
making a living to keep himself above waters, it would not have been
possible for him to travel and lecture as he did for sixty years. From
what I had known, he always travelled to places at the invitation of
people who wanted him to come down and speak.

>
> JHE
> >>On the other hand, under the expert management of Rajagopal and
> >>some really slick legal maneuvers, the Krishnamurti Foundation
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> >MKR: Can you amplify what these are?  Only legal maneuvers I
> >know of Rajagopal (who BTW is a lawyer educated and trained in
> >London) and the K Trusts happened on account of the suit filed
> >by the Attorney General of CA and the new K Foundation against
> >Rajagopal and the old K Charitable Trusts. Later, Rajagopal and
> >the Trustees sued K and the Trustees of the current KFA.
> >Interestingly enough, one of those Trustees who was sued by Atty
> >General of CA (and has the unique honor of suing Krishnamurti
> >and others) is a member of TSA and was an elected Board Member
> >of TSA and is currently an appointed Board Member of TSA.
>
> JHE
> Yes, there has been quite a history of lawsuits around KFA.  They
> go in one ear and out the other for me.  The "really slick
> maneuver" I had in mind was Ragagopal's claiming that EVERYTHING
> Krishnamurti said or wrote in his entire life belongs to the
> Foundation.  Lady Emily got into this problem in the 1950's with
> CANDLES IN THE SUN, when she was going to publish some personal
> letters to her from Krishnamurti.  She was told that she had no
> legal right to publish those letters--that the content of those
> letters belong to the Foundation.  That was a slick move in the
> 1950's and was without precedent.  It wasn't until thirty years
> later with the legal battle over the ownership of J.D. Salanger's
> personal letters to others that KFA's claim was ever really
> tested.  Now I call that slick.  Rajagopal was the type of lawyer
> I would want on my side if I got into a legal tangle.
>
> JHE
> >>So, regarding your question: "Was [CWL] all that off every time
> >>in all `his' opinions?"  I don't know.  The odds are that CWL
> >>had to have been right about some things.  But it is clear to
> >>me that Krishnamurti was not one of the things he was right
> >>about.
>
> >MKR: I agree that CWL was not right about CWL's expectation how
> >K is going to teach with the help of the Apostles created in
> >LCC.
>
> MKR
> >However, K's ideas and discussion of various matters dealing
> >with human issues has arrested the attention of a large number
> >of people and based on what I see on the K's maillist, they have
> >helped and affected the lives of many. This contribution of his
> >is important to be taken into consideration. Anyone interested
> >may want to subscribe to listening-l and see for themselves.
>
> JHE
> No doubt K has changed the lives of many.  No doubt, there are
> many more who have been unaffected by him.  But how does this
> make him any different from the many other spiritual teachers?
> Please understand that I have no criticism of K or of his
> message.  But I find it very strange to see so many people
> following and hanging on to every word uttered by a man who kept
> telling everybody  not to follow him or to hang onto his words.
>
MKR: I understand. I have had the experience of taking some of my friends
to listen to him. There were two types of reactions. Many, after
attending his lecture were so shaken up about their beliefs, then never
again came to listen to him. Others want to hear more. A small minority
was in the middle.

> JHE
> >>He was surrounded by tutors and had
> >>the opportunity to go to the best schools in the world.  He
>
> MKR
> >As far as I have read, I do not think he ever went any of the
> >*best* schools. Have you found any specific details of the
> >schools he attended?
>
> JHE
> I said that he had the *opportunity.*  K's experiences with
> University life is well outlined by his biographers.  Alexis'
> post sort of summarizes them, but I didn't take the time to go
> back through the documents, or even the biographies to confirm
> his points, but they more or less reflect what I recall:
>
> >As I understand it: Krishnamurti attended but did not
> >matriculate at the Universite de Paris (The sorbonne) and The
> >university of Wurzburg (as did I) and attempted to Matriculate
> >at Oxford but was driven from the school by the hostility of the
> >other students who made very cruel fun of "The Little Avatar".
> >Announcing a boy to be "The second Coming" and sending that same
> >boy to a public school is a very cruel and thoughtless act.
>
> My understanding is that the above mentioned Universities are
> world class i.e. the "best schools."  They are attended by the
> children of the most privileged families.  I wish I could have
> had such opportunities.  But alas, I'm hardly from a privileged
> family--let alone an educated one.
>

MKR: From my personal experience, I went to one of the academically
*worst* schools in India. But it was one which produced many of the
current day politicians in S. India. The School also had the unique
history of hosting a meeting to receive HPB and CWL when they returned to
India at the time of Coloumb controversy. It was CWLs first visit to
India. I have met and dealt with many who went to the
Best schools in the world. I find nothing extra ordinary with those who
went to the best schools. May be in some special technical areas, best
school may give leading edge technical education. Many may not agree with
my assessment/opinion.


  > JHE
> >>I like
> >>K's teachings very much, but is he the returned Christ?  I
> >>don't think so.
>
> MKR
> >I don't think any one can be certain about whether he is the
> >returned Christ or not. If he is the returned Christ, then you
> >have the problem of the religions like Hindu, Buddhism, Moslem
> >etc rejecting him because it is not their prophet or Avatar who
> >is returning. Just a thought.  If he really the returned Christ
> >he would have had severe problems from the various Christian
> >denominations all over world - some accepting and some
> >rejecting.
>
> JHE
> I only expressed my opinion.  You are of course welcome to yours.
> I have a rather extensive collection of very scarce Krishnamurti
> material here.  Some of it is from a very early point in his
> career when he was promoted as the returned Christ.  The Churches
> gave the TS a lot of flack about this claim early on so CWL and
> AB quickly backed off on this and introduced the idea that he was
> the vehicle for the "Maitreya,"  who was supposed to be the real
> being behind many spiritual teachers including Jesus and the
> Buddha.  This shift removed them from the firing line of the
> Churches and also gave K a more universal appeal.
>
>
> JHE