Theos-Talk Archives (June 1996 Message tl00183)

Alexis:
Glad you posted the message. I would let the readers here to make up
their own mind on the matter.
	...Doss Ramadoss


On Mon, 3 Jun 1996, alexis dolgorukii wrote:

> At 07:11 AM 6/3/96 -0400, you wrote:
>
> Doss:
>
> With all due respect to you, I would like to offer some observations
> regarding your remarks concerning the "contributions of A.B. and C.W.L. to
> Theosophy and The theosophical Society".
>
> >There have been some mention about the contributions of Annie Besant and C W
> >Leadbeater to Theosophy and Theosophical Society.
> >
> >It was during the time of Annie Besant and C W Leadbeater, the membership of
> >the Theosophical Society, Adyar grew enormously until the drop after J
> >Krishnamurti made his famous "Truth is a Pathless Land" statement.
>
> The Question is:
>
> Was it either moral or ethical to have put Jiddu Krishnamurti in a position
> in which he was driven to make such a speech? I don't believe it is possible
> to avoid the idea that because of Bishop Leadbeater's obsession with J.K.
> the man's childhood was totally blighted. It is also an important aspect of
> this to inquire why and how the "membership grew enormously" during the
> tenure of Mrs Besant and Charles Leadbeater. It is my belief that it grew
> for different reasons in Europe and India. I think that in India it grew
> because of Mrs. Besant's work in the Congress Party, and because of Indian
> Nationalism being so very strongly furthered by the efforts and financial
> contributions of The Theosophical Society. In Europe it grew primarily
> because of the efforts of the immediate followers of H.P.B. and because it
> was a social fad. It cannot be denied that in Europe, the theosophical
> movement was an upper-class phenomenon, and was especially popular among the
> creative people who had been originally drawn in by Mme.. Blavatsky (i.e.
> Vasily Kandinsky and Paul Klee and Piet Mondrian and Alexander Scriabin and
> Eric Satie). I think that by the time of the Krishnamurti speech, most of
> these people had been driven away by the sensationalism and "fairy tale"
> quality of Leadbeater's work. Mrs. Besant's written works are simply "mirror
> images" of Leadbeater's works, and this is true too of Arundale,
> Jinarajadasa, and Sri Ram etc. It is my very strong belief that were the
> written works of Charles Webster Leadbeater to somehow never have been
> written, the works of all these other writers would never have come into
> being. It is certainly not exaggerating to say that what Theosophy is today,
> is what it was made to be by Charles Leadbeater with the acquiescence of Mrs
> Besant.
> >
> >If you look at the current statistics of the various organizations in the
> >Theosophical Movement, the membership and the number of countries in which
> >branches are active, TS, Adyar is the largest. All the other Theosophy
> >organizations have membership which are very small and the countries in
> >which they are active are few. (If anyone has statistical information to
> >support or dispute this, I would welcome it).
>
> In view of the proportionate ratio of membership to population, in a world
> population of some four and one half Billion, the membership in all of the
> Theosophical Societies put together is entirely insignificant. If one were
> to subtract the number of members in India, it would even be more
> significant. I am persuaded that the reasons for membership are not at all
> the same in India and the rest of the world. I have had much contact with
> Indian Nationals who are not Theosophists and I have always been very
> unhappy regarding the level of hostility I have encountered vis a vis the T.S.
> >
> >While Olcott established branches far and wide, it is the lectures and books
> >of  AB and CWL which introduced Theosophy to most of the members. I am one
> >of those who benefitted by reading the books and lectures of AB and CWL.
>
> The very first Theosophical Books I ever read were Leadbeater's "Masters and
> the Path" and "The Inner Life", and I am sure that you are completely
> correct when you say that many, if not most, people are introduced to
> Theosophy by these and other works of Leadbeater and Besant. But for me that
> was nearly thirty years ago, I have learned much in the interim. I have
> studied much in the interim. I have had much experience in the interim. With
> all due respect I must say that I find myself very resentful for all the
> many "errors" (to say the least) in those writings.
>
> In the course of the last thirty years I have discovered the Good Bishop to
> have been so very wrong about so many things, and when one compares his
> words with his actions, so terribly hypocritical, that I am angry at myself
> for having been so gullible as to have been duped.
> >
> >But for the contributions of AB and CWL, IMHO, TS, Adyar would now have the
> >membership and geographical coverage similar to that of the other TS
> >organizations.
>
> Doss, there's just no way anyone can make such an estimation. There's also
> the great possibility that without the shame of the Krishnamurti incident
> and the scandals surrounding the Bishop, the T.S. would be a much larger and
> more significant organization. It would also possibly not be fragmented.
> because the schism with the American section and W.Q.Judge was, in my
> estimation wholly at the instigation, and the result of the ambitions of,
> Annie Besant.
> >
> >As the facts speak for themselves, and each can draw their own conclusions
> >about the contributions of AB and CWL.
>
> The strange thing about "facts" Doss, is that they are not the same to each
> person. To arrive at those "facts" I think, one is obliged to go outside of
> "Theosophical Sources".
>
>
> >
> >As one Adept said "Ingratitude is not one of our vices,", let us ponder over
> >what AB and CWL have contributed to Theosophy and TS.
>
> Ah, but once again, that is entirely a matter of perspective. You think they
> helped Theosophy so you are grateful. I think they harmed Theosophy greatly
> and so gratitude is irrelevant.
>
> >
> >
> >        ....Ramadoss
> >
> >
> People can disagree, and disagree strongly, and still be Brothers and Friends:
>
> I admire you greatly for all your efforts.
>
> alexis d.
> >
>
>