Theos-Talk Archives (May 1996 Message tl01160)

RI:
>My view is pretty strongly that *manas* is more closely *associated* (but not
>synonymous) with "word-production" ("verbal thought-creation").  I base this
>entirely on my own repeated meditative observations of the "sequence"
>mentioned previously; thus, I make no claim that this is What It Really Is
>for everyone.
	Sound is "higher" than sight, so word/noise-production is surely
as much a product of manas as image-production, and the two would be
found together.  In dreams, for example, we hear as validly as we see.

>However, I believe you and I can be still on the same track if you will allow
>me to take off the *manas* from your statement so that it reads thus:  "Kama
>simply adds emotional charges to the images."
	Technically you are more correct, yes.  It also adds emotional
charges to sounds.

> It also can, of course,
>determine the shape/nature of the images one is experiencing/producing.  I
>think you and I may agree that this is the pitfall for most would-be
>magicians--i.e., that they inadvertently introduce more desire/like/hate into
>their consciousnesses than they had previously.
	Agreed.  I see this in dreams as well as in meditation.
It is one of the reasons why fear can be deadly to any magician.

>In my view, a kama-manas technique would involve the addition of some
>sort of verbal component--praying/talking/listening/directing/
>describing/characterizing/etc.--in connection with the images.
	Yes.  This is done in magic, both Eastern and Western.  Also
a normal part of all rituals, magical as well as religious.   In Tibetan
Yoga, we find this even in buddhi-manas techniques as a means to
put the mind into a proper frame of reference.

>An example of a pure manas technique would be, in my view, something like
>self-hypnosis.
	This is tricky, because I can see where self-hypnosis could
be kama-manas or buddhi-manas.  In fact, most rituals would start
with an emphasis of kama-manas, and then work up to buddhi-manas,
rather than simply jumping into buddhi-manas directly (which can
only be done after sufficient practice).  I have read Tibetan rituals,
for example, that employ words, mantras, visualizations, and samadhi
in them, thus taking the magician from the waking state all the way
into samadhi, and then back again.

>  Just as you
>point out that an otherwise neutral image can be "imbued" by acting upon it
>with the kama in one's own consciousness, I am suggesting that "wordless
>Buddhic perception/intentionality" is also a "tool" which can be used when
>working with inner imagery.
	Exactly.  Start with kama-manas, and then proceed to buddhi-manas.
This can be done by dropping off the emotional content of the image, and
then dropping off words and the "logic" associated with the lower manas.
When consciousness functions at the buddhi-manas level, it is without
emotional charge or "personal feelings" and without words.  It focuses
directly on ideas.  These ideas may or may not be accompanied by images
and sounds.

>Consequently, you may have noticed in all of this that you have almost
>already won me over to your point of view that the state of consciousness we
>clumsily call *Buddhi-manas* is not necessary incompatible with inner
>imagery. . . .
	It is my understanding that imagery and sound accompany
consciousness at all levels below the Abyss--i.e., on all four lower
cosmic planes of manifestation containing the 7 Globes of HPB's
universe model.  However, at the buddhi-manas level, these are
devoid of emotion and devoid of words or labels.  The problem always
comes in when we return to our normal waking state.  When we return,
we pass through our kama-manas, which "colors" the memory of
the experience.  Often it is only this "colored" view that we can recall
at all.  But with experience, the buddhi-manas level experience can
be recalled without the lower trappings.  The problem, of course, is
that since the experience is totally beyond words to describe, it is
virtually impossible to talk about to anyone else who has not
experienced it for themselves.  Often, the lower trappings of
words and emotional imageries are used in discussions, but only
out of necessity.

	Jerry S.
	Member, TI