Theos-Talk Archives (October 1995 Message tl00048)

Some responses to Rich (and I really am trying to be nice here folks):

Rich:<This quote on the face of it presents us with some problems. How can the
"world of effects" for Globe D include the "Causal Plane"? How can what is
causal be a plane of effects?>

Every second in time, is the cause of the next second, and the
effect of the last. This is known in physics as the Law of Causation.
Very few things (if any) are all cause, or all effect. Everything is effected
by other things and in turn will cause other things. Its kind of like a
network in which we are all tied together. The Causal Plane is simply
one name given to the fourth plane upward. Some call it the Upper
Mental Plane. Our Reincarnating Ego is located on this plane, and
this, in turn, is where the plane gets is quaint name. I am very sorry if
all of this is "problematic" to you, Rich. Its not a problem to me. When
the Masters labeled areas as "spheres of causes" and 'spheres of
effects" they were, IMHO, unconsciously muddying the waters. They
were trying to get a somewhat scientific view of karma. They are quite
right, but it is confusing because it relates only to our human condition
seen through the Law of Karma, which is but another way of looking
at the Law of Causality. In short, the "principles" and "spheres of
causes and effects" have little to do with the theory of globes.

Rich:<The whole idea of associating Globes simply with planes is quite
problematic.
 Rather, eaech Globe would appear from HPB's teachings to have its own set of
planes, at least as relates to those beings experiencing life in a Globe.>

If this is your understanding, Rich, then go for it. But occultism
and magic see it the way that I have discussed with globes being located
on the planes. Personally, I find the idea that each globe is surrounded
by its own unique set of planes to be pretty problematic. Your idea (and
other theosophist may agree with you) has many theosophists confused
and confounded about the whole teaching of the globes (it goes without
saying that your "confusion" is seen from my own viewpoint, and that it
could be me who is confused - so don't get all bent out of shape and take
this as some kind of personal attack. OK? I am not attacking, just simply
telling others on the list that another viewpoint is possible).

Rich:< How could different parts of our own septenary nature exist on different
globes?
 This makes no sense to me, literally.>

I never said that they did. I said that they exist on other planes, and
they
do. Its funny how these work, isn't it? For example, your idea that emotions
and
thoughts, and spirit can all exist on the physical plane make no sense to me,
literally.

Rich:<If the globes are just the planes, why name them as different things at
all?>

As far as I know, Rich, you are the only one on this list to ever say
such
a thing. Neither Eldon nor I have ever said that the globes are just planes.
In
fact, I pointed this out to you once before. Why do you keep saying this? Is
our
planet earth the same thing as the physical plane? I don't think so. My own
personal view here is that earth is on (or in) the physical plane - along with
a whole lot of other globes/spheres/sephiroth/planets.

Rich:< To me the teachings are extremely clear that the Globes are complex
worlds
of planes in themseves, and cannot be reduced to simply one plane or another.>

These "clear" teachings are nowhere to be found, my friend. Please say
"the globes are on the planes" one hundred times for me. I challenge you to
find a single quote from any Source Teaching (define this in any way, shape, or
form,
that you want) that says each globe has its own set of planes. Our universe
has 7 cosmic planes of manifestation. On these planes are 12 globes, situated
as shown by both HPB and Purucker. If you want more planes, I am afraid that
you will
 have to go looking in other universes.

Jerry S. No flames please. No personal attacks intended. My
challenge for source material quotations is perfectly in line with Rich's strong
desire for such. Should be a piece of cake. :-)