Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00612)

John,

You took Rich's comments really hard. I thought his words were improving,
but maybe that means you took the full brunt of his accusations in instead
of spreading them around. I agree with you that Judge's evaluations are good
for his path and not everyone's. I also would like you to ask you a question
regarding a point I tried to get Eldon to make, but he wouldn't do it.

>From Eldon I got the impression that he is trying to present his view and
not just "respond to your view." I also get the impression that you won't go
ahead with the data you've been collecting regarding your clairvoyant
experiences unless everyone on the list sends you a post saying, "Please, by
all means, tell us more" which by the way I am saying.

The point I am referring to above is that your data is bound to be somewhat
one-sided, unless you write to Paul Johnson who claims some ability also.
Wouldn't it be great if you and Paul could compare what you've found? My
point again is that you and Eldon won't be able to discuss what you've
learned to any degree. I won't be able to discuss clairvoyance with you and
other people are bound to find the same problem.

This leaves everyone without the ability to their "listening." Sure we may
be able to form comments, questions, hints, and ideas for future direction,
but are you sure this is what you want?

Again, isn't it true that anyone who wishes to present clairvoyant
experiences is letting their words fall on "deaf ears?" What should we do to
encourage you? If we act defensive about your approach, wouldn't it be due
to a wish to involve people in discussions regarding currently available
material, material which everyone may become familiar with and assess at
their own level. This material is made available to us by very prestigious
individuals who we are not forced to judge because other people have judged
them for us.

What your difficulties are in terms of people opening up to what you
potentially could make available to us, is that we don't know how to react.
I've never had anyone else ever tell me their experiences before. What do I
say? Do I just congratulate myself that I have a rare opportunity to fulfill
the third object? Or should I, like Liesel suggests, see this opportunity
regarding the third object as available in all of the ways she lists?

In any case, what if no one is able to discuss your findings? Won't you
feel bad that people didn't even respond to you? We could just read it and
store it for the future, but you always seem to take their separate
approaches as directed at you when they are really directed more to the
group. Any discussion which your material might produce would have to be
what we have read and unfortunately these are the statements you are getting
from others, but taking as "your most-often-found response."

I think you should just post your material, avoid feeling confronted by
"typical responses" and see what happens. Maybe there will be a more
advantageous outcome than I can foresee or expect. Maybe there will be
others here who can compare what you are writing in a positive manner with
something in their history.

I, myself, would like to go find Steiner's book on the subject and give you
some of his thoughts. I thought he wrote an excellent book, but I can't
recall the name. This would be my offering of help to you. I don't think
it's very remarkable to quote from a book, but what's left? We both know
that what's left is what you are so used to getting and the only reason
that's what's left is that that's just about all there is.

Do you want us to be your students in a new school? If you want intelligent
responses, what would those be? Maybe something like, "John, this is
remarkable. Everyone should want to read about this because you seem to be
getting a lot out of it and it is our third object. Publish. Definitely try
to publish." Please try to show me what kind of responses are open to us.

Maybe for advice we could try, "John, when you sit down with these angels in
the forrest have you ever tried to communicate telepathically with a friend
and found it easier to do in the presence of the angel." ...you know, make
a list of things to try which would make for better science. Would that
help? Unfortunately, I'm not sure that we have any well-trained research
scientist. Don't they rely heavily on statistics? In which case, my advice
could be: repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. Does this help?

I hope you're getting my point in writing this post. I guess a discussion
group doesn't find it easy to discuss your experiences because all discovery
is by you. If we work with our intellect, discovery is among all those who
participate. How can a one-sided conversation help us in our study of theosophy?