Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00562)

Brenda:

>>Eldon:

>>Salvation is attained by one's own efforts, by one's own
>>self-initiative, and any religious approach that takes away
>>one's confidence in taking charge of his life and attaining
>>it stands in opposition to the Good. No one else can save
>>one, no external spiritual teacher or deity, despite the
>>claims of some religious groups.

>This is not entirely true, and I don't understand where you are coming from
>with the rest of your post either.

This describes the central idea of spiritual evolution. You'll
have to explain where you disagree with it.

>Karma can be looked at as one form of salvation.

Karma is not something that comes to you from outside. It is the results
of your past and present actions. It represents the fruit of your
self-initiative.

>Take my family for
>instance. I have an older brother who married right out of high school and
>was rather difficult to speak intelligently with. He didn't like
>intellectual life. I really didn't think he'd be very successful. Often
>times when I was with him, I would be made to feel base and he would easily
>ridicule.

>When I look back on how we both fared in life, I would say he had a family
>and a home while I was still wondering where to turn next. I did sometimes
>ask myself why he and others like him were so successful and somebody who
>was actively seeking "spiritual truth" so abandoned.

>It's very possible that our karma placed us in these positions. My brother
>has a religious wife and his children are grown and doing very well with
>their lives, too.

It is possible to lead a normal, somewhat happy life without feeling the
sense of divine discontent that leads us to seek out the Path. Suffering
and problems in life are often the best teacher, and I would expect to
find them in the lives of seekers.

>When one person does so well with so little, isn't it fair to say there are
>other forces at work besides our own self-initiative.

Is he really doing so well? Or could a deep part of himself be hungry for
things that he cannot put into words, things that you, at least, are active
in searching for?

>I don't think people are addressing the questions that Daniel raised at all.

He's making statements about how he sees things and where he sees us in
life. We resonding to those statements in a mostly respectful manner.

>I think they're just ranting at him. Why don't you look at the teachings
>sometime?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm writing my understanding of the
basic position of Theosophy, in simple language, in response to his
statements. If you think that I've missed the point on any particular
thing that I've said, I can look it over, and see if it's actually an
acurate depiction of the Teachings, or something that is my own idea,
going beyond what I've learned from the books.

-- Eldon