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Re: One last bone...(of contention?)

Sep 13, 1995 04:00 PM
by Murray Stentiford, Scientific Software and Systems Ltd

Daniel << >>Yet His own claims extend far beyond any of the other masters.
>How do you know?

Because those that knew Him, wrote about HIm. And those writings are
well recorded and preserved. Take a look at John 8:48-59. Did Jesus
make any claims of Divinity? The resuly of His claims is very apparent in
vs 59.>>

Daniel, let us all look at what Jesus says in John 8:48-58. I'm quoting
from the New English Bible 1970:

'I am not possessed," said Jesus; ' I am honouring my Father, but you
dishonour me. I do not care about my own glory; there is one who does
care, and he is judge. In very truth I tell you, if anyone obeys my
teaching he shall never know what it is it die.' ..... Jesus replied, 'If
I glorify myself, that glory of mine is worthless. It is the Father who
glorifies me, he of whom you say, "He is our God", though you do not know
him. But I know him; if I said that I did not know him I should be a liar
like you. But in truth I know him and obey his word.' .... In very
truth I tell you, before Abraham was born, I am.'

This is not, IMO, far beyond the claim of any other Master. It is similar
in content and tone to what others with fully awakened spiritual
consciousness would say and have said. The last sentence is like the
well-known phrase of Hinduism "I am That", which is referring to the same
kind of timeless consciousness which goes beyond the ordinary mind.

I'm not belittling it by saying this; it is a wonderful an amazing thing,
but let's avoid being exclusive about it, especially when the same sort
of thing can be found in other cultures, other religions.

There are people in the world who *recognize* in those words their own
unassailable experience, to whom other meanings are secondary.

Also, the passage above makes it quite clear that Jesus does not equate
himself with the "Father", even though in the glory of conscious
communion with Him.

I see this as an example of how there can be an apparently big difference
of interpretion, yet the possibility of a strong common ground of
spiritual understanding, between a fundamentalist view and a theosophical


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