Theos-Talk Archives (September 1995 Message tl00535)

Daniel:

>I know you thought I was leaving and a moment of relief
>came to you. But verily I say that the heat is turning up.

Relief? Heat turning up? The heat that you feel is likely
your own passion in trying to convert people of other
beliefs into the views of your own religious sect. But we
know too much, and have had too many direct experiences of
our own of the Spirit to fall for the argument you might
make that your approach is an exclusive one.

Salvation is attained by one's own efforts, by one's own
self-initiative, and any religious approach that takes away
one's confidence in taking charge of his life and attaining
it stands in opposition to the Good. No one else can save
one, no external spiritual teacher or deity, despite the
claims of some religious groups.

>Is there any writings that you consider authoritative
>regarding the end times? Or is there an absence of this
>topic from theosophic writings?

There are no end times with a big "E". Everything in life is
impermanent, subject to change, and eventually comes to an
end. But then it begins again. Life is ever-renewing, and
there will never be a final end to things.

Our general idea is that our earth and our human experience
on it has a few billion years to go, but even after the death
of the earth, it will "reincarnate" and we'll have the
reborn earth to continue living on in some further age in
the future.

The idea that the earth is a few thousand years old, and
does not have long to live, may have been satisfying to
some nomadic tribal peoples, but is far too simple a story
of life to explain things to people better educated in the
spiritual traditions of the world.

>I bring the subject up because I was pondering the
>concept of darkness and was curious if there was an
>anti-theosophy.

Our biggest "enemy" is inertia, the difficulty of getting
people moving in the direction of the spiritual. This is
sometimes caused by a lack of spiritual feelings and a
presence of Holiness in their lives. It is othertimes
caused by a rigidity of mind, keeping people from seeing
the obvious in life and remaining stuck in play acting
the roles written for them by others in life.

>The simularity I am looking for is the difference between
>Christ and the Anti-Christ.

The two figures, when considered as myths or parables to
teach spiritual things, represent the teaching that there
is a direct path to the Holy, followed by those who take
the necessary steps, and a turning of one's back on that
path, a refusal to take those steps. There are contrary
attractions that we feel. For every initiative that we take
in our lives to widen our horizons and enoble ourselves and
others, the forces of inertia oppose our efforts. But we
make the effort and succeed. The important thing is the
self-initiative, the active voice of the divine *within one*
that urges us to give it expression.

>Matthew 24:5-51 declares there is a time coming when the world
>will be destroyed and that great tribulations will occur and
>that the anti-christ will setup his throne in Jerusalem.

That's certainly a good example of something in the Bible
that is either an parable, attempting to teach some philosophical
truth, or if intended to be taken literally, simply one of many
factual errors that have crept into that particular religious
work, human errors of a work crafted by human hands, however
"inspired" some may have considered them.

>I realize that the tendencies on this list will cause some to
>immediately cry HOAX, or at least fall into simple denial.

I don't think that there's a deliberate attempt by the human
writers of the Bible to deceive anyone, to create a hoax.
Rather, they, as religiously-inclined men, are as subject to
error as any theosophist of this day. (It would have to have
been, I'd think, the people who were the equalivant of theosophists
of their day, who would dare to take the spiritual initiative
and write things like the religous books of the Bible. They
may have not called themselves by that name, but they would
have been the ones to have dared step beyond the religous
orthodoxy of their day and explore uncharted territory.

>What do HP Blavatsky, JJ Hurtak, and JFC Fuller have to say
>about Matthew 24:5-51?

Does it matter? What did they have to say of a particular passage
of *any* religious book? We can examine what they said when we
take up the study of the respective books. Here, we're not studying
the Bible, although you're fond of quoting it. We're discussing
what *you believe* and what *we believe*.

>There is certainly evidence to the fulfillment of many
>end-times prophecies recorded in the bible.

You seem to be reading into the Bible things that its various
human authors would not have been able to know about.

>SmartCards (Get your Mark)
>Embedded Micro-chips
>Infra-red tatoos
>World Order
>One currrency
>1000% Increase in 100yrs of the number of destructive
>earthquakes.
>#1 cause of Black Teenager death is Murder.
>90,000 AIDS cases recorded in 1994.
>Millions of babies mudered every year.
>Epidemic Chaos rules our planet.

These are apparently examples of things you are taught
are wrong in the world. With some points, we might agree
they are wrong, but only when we discuss *why*, and the
*why* is based upon a careful examination of their
respective merits, their ethical, moral, and philosophical
aspects.

>The END is near. Heaven & Earth will pass away...

Not for a few billion years. By then, we will have learned
much of what it is to be human, and be ready to experience
existence as Dhyani-Chohans, what you might call Archangels
or demigods. Eventually along the path of saintliness, we
pass beyond the necessity of human experience, and will
seek rebirth in higher realms.

>Where will your peace come from?

It has always come *from within*. For we are rooted in
the exact same divinity that you call "God" and that
you ascribe to Jesus.

>Some real bad kharma goin on here.

The problem is that you misunderstand our philosophy
because you won't think about it. You're not really
thinking about any of the ideas that we mention to you
when you just translate them into the framework of your
belief system.

We would agree that there is evil in the world, and
we all need to work to make it a better place. Where
we would disagree is as to how to bring people to
the spiritual path, so that they can become forces
for good in their own right.

>What does Theosophy do with DOOMSDAY?

We're not holding our breath.

-- Eldon