Theos-Talk Archives (January 1995 Message tl00008)

Liesel,

     Excuse my belated reply to your posts to me, I have been out
     of town over the new years weekend.  So to answer your last
     two messages to me:

LD> _NB_ I have some very unflatterring opinions of ULT and also
of Point Loma.  I wouldn't dream of airing them, because I
consider it deleterious.  I think it's much more conducive to
rapprochement, to find points of agreement.

     Are your "unflattering opinions" based upon what you have
     heard, or upon personal experience with these organizations?
     My personal experiences with ULT and Point Loma have been
     quite uplifting, and have close friends from both
     organizations.

LD> I don't think we're going to solve anything by getting into
another confrontation, you & me.  They haven't worked for 90
years, nor was anything accomplished by the late (may it rest in
peace) confrontation between Paul & myself....

     Trust me, I have no intention of getting into a
     confrontation with you over CWL, nor did I ever have any.
     Did we have one in the past? If so, I missed it.  If you
     look at my past messages to you, my focus has always been on
     promoting the need for people to dialogue and to work things
     through.  Also, you might note that I have avoided debating
     the Leadbeater issue with you simply because I'm less
     interested in the CWL controversy and more interested in
     talking about how people can communicate concerning
     sensitive subjects.  Another reason why I avoided discussing
     CWL with you is because I got a clear message from reading
     your earlier messages from Paul that: 1.  You already know
     everything you need to know concerning the Leadbeater
     controversy; 2.  that you already know that Leadbeater is
     completely innocent of all negative accusations made against
     him; 3.  that anyone with a different view on this matter
     simply don't know what they are talking about; 4.  that the
     one thing you have difficulty understanding is why there are
     so many uninformed people who continue to believe these
     "myths" about CWL.  Therefore, I never felt that I had
     anything to contribute on the subject that would make any
     difference to you.  I believe that the above is an accurate
     summary of your position on CWL.  Please correct me if I'm
     in error.

     Now, concerning my last post to you--rather than calling for
     a "confrontation," I had asked for clarifications on two
     points neither one of which would have necessitated you to
     debate Leadbeater.  I'm still waiting for those
     clarifications.

LD> I'm looking - have been looking - for a different way to come
to an agreement.  It's necessary to take a different tack, not
slug it out.

     To restate again what I have been trying to say--I think the
     dialogue is more important than the agreement.  I think a
     healthy skill is for people to learn to keep on dialoging
     even when they disagree.  IMHO the goal of a discussion
     should be the search for truth, not to convince the other
     person of it.  As for finding a "different track," perhaps a
     discussion concerning the problems of ascertaining of what
     is "true" is in order.  The basic problem as I see it is
     this: Somewhere between fact and truth is a very large gap
     that doesn't appear to have a name, but is the source of
     that psychic machinery which produces belief.  For myself, I
     operate under the assumption that truth must always be in
     accord with the facts.  Therefore, there may be several
     possibilities of what the truth may be, but it still has to
     account for all of the facts.  This assumption may be in
     error, but so far I have found no reason to disregard it.
     What is your view?

I hope this clears the air a little.

John Mead,

     Yes, I think putting historical discussions on theos-roots
     is a good idea.  I know of several people on this net who
     don't care for history, and this would save them the trouble
     of having to delete these discussions.  So, you have my
     vote.  As for the FAQ file--you lost me.  Do you want a
     couple of people from different points of view--say Liesel
     and Paul, to write an account of the CWL case? Also, how
     does one access FAQ files?

Jerry Hejka-Ekins