Theos-Talk Archives (October 1993 Message tl00135)

Brenda.

>Being as Eldon appears to be trying to
>reform Jerry, who appears to be
>doing astral travel.
Is that what Eldon has been doing?  I
thought that he was simply warning
others not to do as I was doing.

>By reading statements made about
>pain and the integration of pain
>with life, I sensed that the condition
>of humanity is one which is
>unalterable except by degree and by
>liberation.  Even by securing
>one's own fate as much as possible with
>meditation or riches and good
>behavior, a sensitive person true to
>their heart responds to every
>other pilgrim's plight.  The crimes and
>disappointments of others
>become as real to you as your own and
>by attempting to do away with
>selfishness, you open your emotions and
>life to the suffering of others.
Brenda, this paragraph is pure Buddhism.
Besides, there is no way to
"secure one's own fate."  Security is an
illusion or maya.  Change, sometimes slow
and sometimes abrupt, is the rule of this
world.  I like to call it the Chaos Factor,
but whatever you call it, nothing is secure
or lasting below the Abyss.

>Except, I still cannot feel equal to the
>pain of all suffering humanity
>and so must seek after liberation with all
>my might.
This is what the Buddha said too.  Actually,
liberation cannot even begin until we first
feel the desire for liberation.  As long as
we enjoy physical life we will not even want
to be liberated.  Liberation is from suffering.

>At one point,  early on when astral travel
>and projection were under study, I became
>convinced that the astral vehicle, which was
>being separated from the physical, was
>important to the health and proper
>functioning of the physical.
It is important.  Our physical body is a
materiel expression of our Body
of Light.  The separation of the Body of Light
from the physical body has nothing to do, per
se, with physical health.

>My resolution was that by avoiding any
>occurrence of their separation except in
>dire emergency, I could continue the mental -
>astral - physical makeup where the astral
>is at most a bridge for thoughts and at
>least a light body holding the cells in
>vitality. All interest that I had hoped
>would make astral travel a learning
>experience was squashed.
Your logic appears to be faulty here (?).
I don't see your point.  Why do you
think that separating the Body of Light
from the physical body will hurt
you in any way (we do this every night when
we go to sleep)?  While I certainly have been
having physical problems, these are from my
own karma and not in any way related to my
astral traveling.  The Body of Light does not
"hold the cells [of the physical body] in
vitality." except insofar as the physical body
is an expression of the higher subtle bodies (a
condensation of our karma, as some have put it).
You seem to be saying that separating the
physical and subtle bodies will somehow
bring death closer.  I have never read this
anywhere, and can't believe it.  There have been
many long-lived healthy people who have astral
traveled.

>When I read about investigating inner planes
>and establishing a sense of where we are and
>thereby what there is to learn and study, I only
>believed it to be possible under the "guidance"
>of the inner man at least, and guidance of the
>friendly, assisting deities at most.
Yes.  I agree with you here completely.  I feel
that I have both.

>It was in this setting that I regained the
>freedom of inner plane study with a new
>limitation, my own being.  By making the
>entire plane of experience off limits for
>various reasons, the only recourse was to
>study within the limits of my astral and mental
>body, so any signposts I might erect would have
>position in inner time and space, because I
>erected them for my own use.
Interestingly enough, your self-imposed limitation
is exactly the same limitation that we all make.
It is inevitable.  Occult teaching says that
everything that exists external to us, already
exists internally as well.  To look within yourself
is the same as visiting the Globes of our
planetary chain.  There is virtually no objective
way (no *test*) to know whether we are actually
visiting external worlds or delving into our own
inner realms of our mind.  Even the idea of
signposts won't help us in this, because of
Jung's collective unconscious (which I do subscribe to)
which suggests that we all have similar landmarks
within our psyches.  I personally see it this way:
when we look into ourselves far enough, we
will find ourselves gazing at the universe.


>So what is there for an individual limited to
>the study of their own bodies on the inner
>planes? ... I've heard that all the elements are
>present in man's body.
Everything.  You heard correctly.

>Since we mentioned the idea of things floating
>through one another, if something were floating
>through, would I have the right (let alone
>the ability) to capture its course for a time
>until I had finished my examination and testing
>of it?
I am not sure what you mean by "things."
Certainly this is true for thoughts.  Theosophy
teaches that thoughts are living things on the
mental plane.  They enter into and leave our
mental bodies somewhat like parasites.  If we
think about them, they feed and grow strong.
If we ignore them, they wither and die.  But they
never disappear, death being more a state of
dormancy.

>Does thought have a life of its own deserving
>of study? Do some thoughts fade over time or
>dissipate in the presence of another? What is
>the influence of the will? I imagine the will
>could resurrect a dead thought if it was ever
>alive.
Yes.  Yes.  Yes.  The will can be used to
control/direct our thinking process so that
we can feed selected thoughts while
starving others.

>I don't believe anyone has ever seen a desire.
>Does anyone recall mention of this in the
>literature?
I believe Leadbeater says that desire is red
in the aura.  I can usually tell strong desires
in others, though I don't see color.  Desire
usually shows in a person's eyes.


>Isn't it like that, too, for people we'd like
>to know and become friends with or at least
>become useful to? All they have to do is
>withdraw and all contact with them is lost.
Only physical contact can be lost.  Mental
contact cannot be lost, and in fact, we are
mentally connected to everyone in our
lifewave at all times whether incarnated or
discarnated.

>I hope you'll consider the importance of the
>astral body in your general welfare and not
>so willingly elect to do without its
>potential and influence in daily living,
>every second of time.
While I appreciate the warning, I am not at
all sure what the danger is.  Could you
elaborate?

                     Jerry S.