Theos-Talk Archives (November 1999 Message tl00245)

Nov 20

Dear Gerry and Randy:

I am looking at the end of Jerry's response (quoted immediately
below) and would like to comment after that below its
reproduction (and also make some insertions in it)

Dal

====QUOTED ============

-----Original Message-----
> From: Gerald Schueler [mailto:gschueler@iximd.com]
> Date: Thursday, November 18, 1999 1:44 PM
> Subject: Some Responses

. . . . . .  snip . . . . .

Randy, as a newbie you need to understand that not all
Theosophists agree on just what Theosophy teaches us.
For example, I disagree with Dallas on a number of
issues.  Dallas writes:

<<Now that pretty much encompasses all that Theosophy deals with.

The fundamental add-on to what we already know is the idea that

WE CANNOT GET AWAY WITH EVIL THINKING, FEELING
 AND DOING.  There is no "Power" which serves to conceal the
selfish attitudes that we can generate.  Evil when simply
described
is breaking of nature's laws.  This "breaking" can be through
ignorance, or deliberately (which is a greater degree of EVIL).>>

which shows that he is still working out his shadow
problems and is caught up in the wonders of good
and evil that to me are all in the human mind. I am
a Theosophist, and yet I disagree with the entire
thrust of what Dallas says in the above quote. Its
no wonder that you can become confused when
long-time Theosophists can't even agree. For
example, I would challenge Dallas to find me one
of nature's laws that can be "broken."

DTB	Quite right.  I cannot.  I can only short-cut a lengthy
explanation by saying as I did that we can deliberately or
ignorantly CEASE FROM OBSERVING THE LAWS OF NATURE.  A knowledge
of those LAWS I hold to be innate in the innermost (SPIRITUAL)
consciousness OF EVERY ONE OF US.

As we live, (I would say)  if our desire TO KNOW is sharpened by
a sense of the importance in knowing by us, personally, these
things --  we are impelled from within not only by curiosity, but
by the challenge to KNOW OURSELVES -- It is a recreation in our
present lives of the Hermetic:  'Man know thyself" -- which is a
most powerful echo from motives and methods we pursued in our
past lives and those searches we prosecuted then.  (Excuse my
making such an assumption and characterization.)
------------------------------------

If he can do so, then I would have to question what good
any such "law" is. In my book, nature's laws cannot
ever be broken but rather they have either beneficial
or nasty repercussions to them.

DTB	Jerry is quite right in this expression
------------------------------------

The primary natural law is to do "this" and good things will
happen
while to do "that" and bad things will happen. Its
called the law of karma and it cannot be broken,
but it can be transcended.

The fact that we all think differently is, I think , the
real power and beauty of Theosophy.

DTB	through our individual line of life's meditation (our
motives, in general) we start Nature's reaction to all we do
(that "reaction" is called, broadly, "Karma," by me).

I would say that we "transcend Karma" (or rather it no longer is
sent into motion, personally because of selfishness) when we
learn how to harmonize our lives with Nature entirely.

Which, to my way of thinking, is to become a Mahatma -- one who
KNOWS all that Nature is, and what her purposes are.

We then comply to the letter with those (I mean nature's laws,
rules and purposes), and yet, we do not become thoughtless and
impotent automatons, but rather we graduate into becoming those
intelligent forces and powers for the good of all that are
described in THE SECRET DOCTRINE as being responsible for the
oversight of parts of Natural evolution. I mean that They (the
Mahatmas -- Masters of wisdom -- employ that knowledge and
compassion and discrimination to act for and in Nature as one of
her devoted SERVANTS.

I find in (and from what I understand) of their writings, that
the Masters of Wisdom seem to express this attitude concerning
themselves and their work for Nature and for Mankind.

As an example, let us  look at our own little Universe --  our
physical bodies, and the several "principles" composed of
different spheres of intelligent "lives" (jivas) which are
involved in its being.

We don't yet CONSCIOUSLY know all the ramifications throughout
the world around us, that draws specific atoms and molecules of
"matter" to us (through air, water, food, ideas, feelings, urges,
impulses, etc).

Many of these pass through us and are not retained, but are
returned to Nature, PLUS whatever impression of our CREATIVE
power that is active (and impressed on them) while they are "in"
us.

Some are incorporated (and impressed by) into our Psychological
selves for a longer or shorter period.  Next, physically, (it is
said that the human body changes to the extent of nearly 97%
annually, and in 7 years medical science asserts that
physiologically it (the body alone) changes COMPLETELY, and is
replaced by a new set of fundamental atoms and molecules.

But our identity as CONSCIOUSNESS and sense of EGOITY remains
unitary.

This opens a whole field of inquiry and research -- not just
physically, but metaphysically in the areas of psychology and
consciousness.

We can question:  why does Nature arrange this kind of
environment for us -- a Unitary Consciousness ,with its "roots"
in the Universal SPIRIT (perhaps only a figment of our
imagination at this point) ?  [ At least that is how I would
express it, Jerry might say it differently, or contradict and
challenge this statement -- I am not sure. ]

Any way, this illustrates both the complexity of self-study, and
the framing of common vocabularies (how the words express ever
more accurately ideas that are common). seems to be our present
effort.

Best wishes as always in our common search for meaning.

Dallas

===============================

DTB adds:

Jerry is quite right.  I think that the difference is in our use
of words, and the way in which we express ideas.

The actual laws of Nature (called KARMA in general, because that
is an expression of the reaction that we receive as humans, when
our 'motives' -- good or bad -- come home to us) cannot be
"broken."

We can act individually and selfishly, disregarding others'
rights and integrity.

The violation then is that of the integrity and the cooperative
(law aspect) of Nature, which demands that we all act
CONSIDERATELY in regard to others at all times.  No one is
allowed the luxury" of being a tyrant forever.

Hence the idea of a Universal Brotherhood is emphasized as a
first principle (or OBJECT) in the Theosophical Movement.

As I see it, and as I read Theosophical ideas, the whole thrust
of Nature, and her so very intimate sensitivity in all that we
are and do, is a vast urge towards conjoint work and the sharing
of any progress in UNDERSTANDING her that we may make, with
others who are also on the same kind of Path, in their own way,
individually.  Brotherhood and compassion are the great keys to
be seen, grasped and applied.

Best wishes, again

Dal