Theos-Talk Archives (November 1999 Message tl00207)

Nov 17th

Dear Gerry:
Of course it is "model" -- at least my understanding of what
happens -- and there are probably errors here and there in
expression.

Remains for us to look at it critically and compare it with
aspects of experience and the doctrines that are offered in
articles and in MAHATMA LETTERS.  I would say that on the whole
it is pretty correct.

Dal

Dallas

-----Original Message-----
> From: Gerald Schueler [mailto:gschueler@iximd.com]
> Date: Tuesday, November 16, 1999 10:51 AM
> Subject: Theosophical After-Death Model

[Dallas]<< Sketch of after-death events between
incarnations:...>>

Dallas, your 11-step sketch is what I would call the generalized
Theosophical After-Death Model or at least your version of it.  I
think that
you summarize Blavatsky very well at least insofar as the high
points are
concerned. But I have some problems with this model.

1.  It is, after all, a model and not "truth." We do not, in
fact, all go
through each of these stages or steps each time we die. The model
is a
general one, and was meant to address the "average" person.

DTB	Each builds their own TRUTH, and compares it with others'.

2.  This model is exactly what Jung was referring to when he
accused
Theosophists of "lazy thinking." If we fully understand that it
is a model
of reality, and not neccesarily what really happens, then we can
accept the
model without the stigma (and the restriction) of lazy thinking.
Lazy

DTB	Every case is individualized.  However there is a framework
or a lattice on which most things are "pegged."

thinkers are those who accept a model such as this as reality
itself.

DTB	THAT IS LAZY INDEED.

3.  A short example. First, as I have pointed out before, Tibetan
Buddhism,
which tracks the after-death processes with almost as fine
precision as
Theosophy, does not recognize your step 2 at all.  I think that
most people
would agree that the life review comes prior to death (I have had
several of
these when death seemed imminent but didn't happen). Very few
NDEs include
it.  The Tibetan Book of the Dead does agree with a preview of
the next
upcoming life, and is in general agreement with the Theosophical
model once
we get through the semantics.

4.  Your version of the model fails to mention the etheric body,
which also
survives for a time. I think that the etheric (stula-sharia and
prana) is
the "shade" or "ghost," and not the astral (kama). I admit that
this is a
nit-pick, but it does demonstrate the very real semantic problem
that we
have in modern Theosophy.

DTB	WHERE DOES HPB SPEAK OF THE ETHERIC BODY?

5.  I think that your subjective division of good and bad, or
"nobel" and
"gross," is a cultural fantasy that varies with each person.
Blavatsky gave
out this model to a bunch of Christians, and put it into words
that they
could grasp. We don't have any need today to continue this kind
of thing.
Nobel actions versus gross actions are such only in the eyes of
the
beholder.

DTB	GOOD = OBEYING THE LAWS OF NATURE
	BAD  =   BREAKING THE LAWS OF NATURE

	PROGRESS  =  KNOWING THE DIFFERENCE

6.  According to the MLs, Devachan is a state and not a location.
It exists
on the mental plane, which is itself a state and not a location.

DTB	STATE IS CORRECT.  LOCATION IS ANYWHERE.

7.  I still say, for a variety of reasons, that your "immortal
ego" is a
mayavic illusion. The "akasic" or akashic records are on the
causal plane,
and it is only the "aroma" of each life that gets stored there.
These
"records" form the skandhas of each reincarnation. It is the
causal body
(atma-buddhi-higher manas) that perpetuates reincarnation, not
the mental
body (manas) which is new each time. In fact, it is because the
lower four
bodies/principles are newly made with each incarnation, that we
can dismiss
reincarnation for all intents and purposes as not being
applicable to human
beings (because human beings can be defined as the lower four of
the seven
and thus are newly made each time). Only the skandhas or
tendencies made in
one life are carried over to another, not any "soul" or "immortal
ego."

DTB	MONAD IS HARDLY AN ILLUSION -- IMMORTAL GIVES COHERENCE TO
MEMORY AND TO INCREMENTS IN LEARNING LEADING TO WISDOM OF THE
UNIVERSE AND ALL ITS LAWS

8.  Death and sleep are brothers.  The after-death states are
very much like
the dream-sleep states that we go through at night. Nothing
terribly
mysterious there. The Theosophical After-Death Model can appear
intimidating
and we need to get past all the big words. But, if you can
control your
dreams, you can control your after-death experiences too, and can
consciously direct your next birth to some extent.

DTB	TRUE --  VERY SIMILAR BUT NOT TOTALLY COMPARABLE.
	As I read it, only Adepts can control their consciousness so
that it is an unbroken continuity with no unconsciousness for
either sleep of the body or any Devachan being needed. (as they
have the capability of resolving all the karmic links as they are
made).

THANKS FOR THE NOTES AND OBSERVATIONS

Dal

Just some thoughts.

Jerry S.

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