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RE: carnivorism question

Oct 22, 1999 06:41 AM
by W. Dallas TenBroeck

Oct 22

Do consider with me the following:

If we could live without destroying any forms of life then good.  The
Jains of India try to do this by subsisting on fruits, seeds, and
certainly not eating plants, roots, or animals.  Their focus is on
"escaping" the dreariness of repeated earthly incarnations.  Like
Theosophists they hold that the human is a mind-soul and the body is
its temporary vehicle.  To escape such bondage is of course selfish to
the extent that it disregards the good they can do for others by right
living.  They want a very personal and exalted "salvation" -- Mukti or
Nirvana or Moksha.  There is a place where there is nothing that need
be done.  But that is also complete isolation.  It is not a melding
with the Life forces and purposes of a Universe (which is what
Theosophy opts for.)

The question of morals and ethics relies on giving their fair share of
living space to all beings.  If through our sophisms we try to cramp
this and make of ourselves the arbiters of the fate of lesser
beings -- employing them for our enjoyment, we fail in the moral test
of living.

To me that is fundamental and simple.  It is giving the other fellow
and especially those who are far weaker than I a fair chance to live
their lives free of interference of a destructive type from me.

Carnivorism or the eating of flesh is by definition a killing of other
beings for our food and living.
Draw your own conclusions.  It is completely unnecessary to our
living.  We do it because we like the taste and try to fool ourselves
that for us it is healthy.  Also we place our living and pleasure
ahead of the rights of others.  We play the bully.  And then we try to
justify it, thus compounding the basic offense.  Theosophy is the
philosophy of common-sense and responsibility it does not set out to
cajole people into considering it.  It provides a sound basis for
anyone to evaluate their lives and the principles that they have
adopted for living those.  Basically is BROTHERHOOD carried out to its
utter and complete PRACTICAL IDEALISM in our own personal lives.  It
also recognizes that this has to be entirely self-generated and
self-sustained.  It cannot be enforced on anyone else but our own
lower natures by the Higher that is interior to us -- and this Higher
is common to all.

If you find me "testy" it is because I  expect that those who approach
Theosophy and ask questions of  have at least read and absorbed some
of the principal ideas of Theosophy and its underlying philosophy.
That is all.  I would expect that there is some questioning of the
logic and reasoning of Theosophical philosophy.

Between us we can rewrite the whole thing -- but why not take
advantage of what is already available.  Which of HPB's writings are
you familiar with?  If you use them and base what you ask on them, and
let me know which,  then I can point to explanations there that are
already on record.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.



-----Original Message-----
> From: []
> Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 5:37 AM
> Subject: Re: carnivorism question

Thank you Dallas

Why would questions make you so testy?  JUust because I am asking
does not mean I am a total ignoramous.

I am familiar with the sciences you mention.  Further study would not
give me
the answers I seek or I would not be doing this.  An understanding of
"cycles" for example does not answer the moral/ethical questions
raised by
carnivorism, i.e., if all this is the result of a loving omnipotent
or if we as spirit creatures had a part in the creation, or if the
lesson of
life is love and oneness, where does carnivorism or having to kill
plants to
survive fit in?

I have no position I am trying to win anyone to other than the open
of truth.  Isn't that what theosophy is about?

It is not of interest to me to step into the middle of a belief
system.  That
is why I am asking for the fundamentals.  They are not answered by
reference to tenets, doctrine or preconceived ethic.

All can be challenged.  If believe holding beliefs which cannot
logically or
experientially be proven to another is nothing more than blind
faith--the cause of more human misery and misdirection than any other

I still hope for some direct ansers to the questions I have raised.
there is someone out there who understands my quest and would be kind
to show me how theosophy (or whatever) can help.


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