Re: carnivorism question
Oct 21, 1999 04:55 PM
----- Original Message -----
> From: <WLR7D@aol.com>
> Date: Thursday, October 21, 1999 10:29 AM
> Subject: carnivorism question
> Is there a sage out there who can answer this question:
> Why is the world based upon carnivorism? Even in a broader sense all
> depends for its sustenance on the destruction of other life. Even
> vegetarians are killers.
I doubt if anyone, sage or not, can answer the question, "Why." All
human beings ever seem to discover is "How."
Even vegetables are killers in this scenario, as they feed on various
bacteria, etc. which are present in the soil. A lot of our thinking
depends upon the "spin" we put on it. I am a vegetarian, for example,
for I observe that the basic structure of animal, bird, and even fish
life forms share a great deal in common. To me, therefore, it is an
avoidance of cannibalism. Many of the creatures that humans eat are
also vegetarian, especially sheep and cattle.
> Why would whoever is responsible for the world create such atrocity
> many other options would be available to someone with omnipotence.? (I
> understand the balances in nature, natural selection, etc. so please
> address just the issue of present biological balance. I'm interested
> motives of whoever conceived of what appears to most humans as macabre
> best. It is of interest that the rest of creation does not seem to
> these sensitivities.)
This presupposes that someone, or some intelligence, *created* such
atrocity in the first place. It posits a creator "god" whether
Christian, Judaic, or any other "aic" or "istic." Whilst our world is
clearly sustained - at the level of manifest life at least - by what is
often called the food chain - why should we suppose that "someone" is
responsible? Another way of looking at it is that everything material
is recycled. This, in today's view, is a Good Thing.
> It's hard to extract the lesson of love in creation when watching a
> swallow a mouse, a lion fall a baby zebra or a tarantula devouring
> sister. Or go visit a slaghter house or a factory chicken or hog farm
> think the packages of meat you buy come from animals that have died
> deaths after a delightful life of browsing on amber waves of grain.
Of course it is. But it is easy when mice tend baby mice, lions nurture
their cubs, etc. It is easy when we read stories of fathful dogs giving
up their lives to save their owners from life-threatening situations.
We can suppose various things, but "suppose" is all we can do. One is
that if there is a creator god, then this being is an evil bastard. We
can sugar the pill by supposing that this being is saying to us, "This
hurts you more than it does me," or "Sorry, it's your karma inherited
from a life in the Arcturus system."
There is an honest but awful truth suggested in the Hebrew scriptures
(in Hebrew) when the "name" of God is examined. In Hebrew, "God" is a
four-letter word, the closest translation into English being
"That-which-is" in the sense of eternal and ubiquitious (everywhere all
at once, Katinka). Many of the early church fathers referred to "God"
in this sense, using the expression, "The Eternal."
Randy - we simply do not *know* why it it is like this, and all of the
teachings offer only explanations of *how* it works, including for our
solace tales of how we can fix it by being good boys and girls, whether
through karma or judgement day.
In sage mode, I offer the following:
Our physical world is as it is simply because that is how it is. Much
of it is, as you observe, atrocious. Another part of it is that
whatever form of life we are (including zebras, cabbages, etc.) we all
die, either from "natural causes" or from being slaughtered. Some of us
are afterwards eaten, though this practice has been drastically
curtailed among humans over some hundreds of years.
I recently posted a near death experience to the list, which to me, and
others who have had similar experiences, makes it very clear that when
we leave this world, by whatever means, we continue to BE. The "how" of
this is a mystery, but much of what I usually call "The Teaching" (to
avoid sectarian labels) is concerned with *this* mystery, of which our
life on earth is only a segment.
In my time to date, I have sometimes "prayed" and had my prayer
answered, sometimes dramatically or even sensationally. At the tender
age of 66 (another 600 and I become the Beast of Revelation) I tend to
the view that looking for a "god" to blame or praise is based upon real,
but simplistically interpreted experience. Having had the good fortune
to experience something of what are usually called "higher" worlds or
levels I have discovered that the ancients were right in some unexpected
ways. Many of those who have helped *me* in answer to prayers or simple
wondering have turned out to be *former humans* - ancestors! They seem
to know more than we do, are unable to explain much of what they know to
us because our present equipment mostly blocks our understanding of it.
They also diasgree among themselves about many of the same puzzles that
we try to solve.
Tricky business, life.
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