Theos-Talk Archives (January 1999 Message tl00119)

Jan 28th

Dear Rafaella:

The "cloning" is a physiological process and so far involves
plants and animals, but has not been successful (that I have
heard) in regard to humans.

In any case the Theosophical view is (as I get it from HPB's KEY
TO THEOSOPHY) the Spirit/Soul in man (the Real HUMAN) is a
reincarnating being.  It is immortal.  Karma determines the place
and family of its new reincarnation.

Unless there is an agreement in terms of karma between the HIGHER
EGOS OF THE PARENTS (FATHER AND MOTHER) AND THE INCOMING EGO of
that being who will be their "child," there can be no incarnation
and consequently no physical body ought to be expected to mature.

However this is only my speculation, based on the ideas of the
IMMORTALITY of the REAL EGO, and the accuracy of KARMA which
operates uniformly and fairly for all beings.

Cloning is a physical and physiological and astral thing, and
does not seem to have the needed roots insofar as humans are
concerned in the psycho-spiritual planes.

There may be exceptions to this but there would be special rules
in such cases.  Hints are given in special cases as for instance
in SD II 275fn and SD II 281.

Best wishes,

Dallas

=====================

-----Original Message-----
> From:	owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com
> [mailto:owner-theos-talk@pippin.imagiware.com] On Behalf Of
> Raffaella
> Sent:	Thursday, January 28, 1999 2:02 AM
> To:	theos-talk@theosophy.com
> Subject:	Theos-World A few questions on a touchy subject...

In a discussion of the soul and reincarnation last night, I had
brought up a
question - Cloning.  Would a clone have a soul, and how would
karma and
reincarnation work with them?  I'd like to throw out to you some
questions and
theories I've come up with, and only ask that your replies not be
to the
rightness or wrongness of the act of cloning. That is a whole
discussion in
itself. The point is, regardless of morals it will happen, and
how do we
handle it?

To start, it was put forth that no, it would not have a soul.
But I must
question this - Nature abhors a void.  From simply taking a scoop
of water out
of a pool, to the endless ingress of matter to a black hole,
nature in some
way or another fills a void.  And think on this, if I've read
aright we
believe that all matter, down to the tiniest piece is a part of
the great
universal light.  This being, even though not born
conventionally, will be
created of the same matter as everything else. How then could it
not be a part
of that universal light?

Now, I think we can agree that the creators, right or wrong, will
have to deal
with whatever karma they have earned.  But what of the child, and
those around
it?  I'll start with a question for our group, in particular.  If
we take the
tack that it has no soul, who among us would look a child in the
face and tell
it that it is a soul-less abomination, that it should never have
been born?
What karma do we create for those within our group if we teach
such ideas?

As for the child, I have many questions.  Would it pick up part
of the spirit
and karma of the one who donated the cells?  Or would it follow
current
thought, that each person has it's own karma?  And if it has it's
own karma,
which of these would it be - A totally new spirit, taking it's
very first
steps on the karmic circles?  Or, with all the trials, and most
certainly
prejudice against the method of it's birth, would it be the
reincarnation of a
soul that had built up so much karmic debt that it would need to
work through
such adversity to move on?

Another point raised was that when you get a transplant, or blood
transfusion
you get some of the essence of that donor.  In natural
conception, the child
shares the lifeblood of it's mother, and some of that essence, as
well as that
from the seed of the father.  What of a child without either of
those
influences?  Would there be some deficiency of soul?  Or, since
the donor had
these influences, and the clone is a copy, would it be similar to
the donor, a
copy of a whole soul?  One thing I'm interested in learning is
what studies
are out there of children born in test-tubes?  This may shed at
least some
light on the question of parental influence.

As for me, I still have too many questions to come to any solid
conclusions
yet. I think you can guess that I am leaning towards them having
some sort of
soul, but still I am not sure of this.  Morally right? Wrong?
Soul or None?  I
find amidst all this I do have one firm belief.  So long as we
treat them as
we would any other creature on this planet, with compassion, we
cannot go far wrong.

-Angie

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