Theos-Talk Archives (January 1999 Message tl00005)

Part three:

David Walker wrote:

  Dear Friends,

  This is the third piece by Dr. Ruben Feldman-Gonzalez recalling
  his dialogues with Krishnamurti.

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                            Brockwood Park
                             June 1978

  In April 1976 I met Krishnamurti and Mrs. Zimbalist at an
  international meeting he attended with psychiatrists at the
  Carnegie Institute of Endowment in New York. It had been organized
  by Dr. David Shainberg from New York.

  The meetings were tape recorded, so I will not discuss them.

  When the last meeting ended I approached Krishnamurti as usual to
  shake his hand and make a few comments.

  This time Krishnamurti looked tired and only said a few words:
  "Did anybody listen?" Krishnamurti used to make intentional pauses
  between words. "Please see Dr. Bohm in England and then see me in
  Brockwood, as soon as you can".

  I just said goodbye. Krishnamurti was sweating and there was no joy
  on his face.

  It wasn't until June 18th 1978 that I landed at Heathrow Airport in
  London (from Miami).

  I took a bus to Woking and from there a train to Petersfield.

  Mrs. Zimbalist was waiting for me at the station in Petersfield. I
  was dressed as informally as I could, and I asked her why we were
  driving a Mercedes. She said it was a good car. I had the belief
  then that the teacher of the world should dress informally and even
  poorly and perhaps live uncomfortably.

  Looking backwards I try to understand my lack of sensitivity and I
  can only partially justify it, telling myself I was so eager to see
  the truth in Krishnamurti that I was doing at the same time
  everything possible to find out what was he hiding: either some
  esoteric teaching for the chosen few or some ugly business for some
  corporation.

  But there was nothing of one nor of the other.

  Krishnamurti was talking about the only thing that matters, and he
  was order, beauty, love and truth.

  Only it was too hard to believe!

  I shared meals with Krishnamurti for ten days in a row. I sat with
  him, Dr. Bohm and his wife, Mrs. Zimbalist, Mrs. Simmons and Mr.
  Narayan who was at that time Principal of the Rishi Valley School
  in India. On June 22nd and 23rd three cameras were set up to film
  the dialogues between Krishnamurti, Bohm, Narayan and Dr. Rahula,
  a Buddhist from Sri Lanka. Krishnamurti invited me to participate,
  and I, as usual, refused.

  During lunch, the following day I asked Krishnamurti what did he
  think of the Buddhist specialist.

  Krishnamurti said, "You know there are many library mouses who can
  only repeat what they read, they are unable to live what they read.
  During the whole conversation there was not one moment of insight.
  He did nothing but compare the new (what Krishnamurti says) with
  the old (Buddhism). He compares everything with Buddha, he doesn't
  want to be a Buddha."

                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  During one of those meals Narayan asked Krishnamurti to talk about
  reincarnation.

  Krishnamurti only said this: "What is it that continues?"

                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  After lunch I approached Krishnamurti who was walking alone with
  his dog Whisper under the trees.

  I told Krishnamurti I had been watching my sexual desire very
  closely the night before.

  I had been given a room where I slept by myself.

  I asked, "Is there anything one can do not to repress the desire
  and not to free it in conduct?"

  Krishnamurti said, "Be a light to yourself."

  Talking to whisper (the dog) he said: "Let's go Che-che".

                          ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  By that time one of the male students (all between 14 and 22 years
  old) had gone to the room of one of the girls.

  There was an ongoing administrative process to expel them both from
  the school.

  Krishnamurti decided he would discuss sex with the students but he
  didn't want the visiting parents who were staying in Brockwood that
  summer to participate.

  I started to leave but Krishnamurti called me: "You have to be
  present", he said. The students were angry during that meeting. One
  of them said to Krishnamurti, "You speak of freedom so much, why do
  you restrict sexual freedom in the school?"

  Krishnamurti answered: "This school is like a home for you. Why
  wouldn't you take care of the school as you would take care of your
  home? You know we are under the laws of England and that we have to
  respect the laws; otherwise, they are going to close the school."

                         ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  I met Krishnamurti soon after a series of long conversations with
  David Bohm regarding his concept of Holokinesis or holomovement.

  Krishnamurti: Did you talk to Bohm?

  Ruben:        Yes. The place was small but the conversation was
                big. Dr. Bohm was patient enough to listen to all
                I had to say. He said my approach to perception
                could be very helpful for those who have the mind to
                listen. I'm trying to polish the language as much
                as I can.

  Krishnamurti: That's good, but words have to be simple. Sometimes
                I have felt like creating a new language. But one
                has to speak to those who listen, and one has to use
                the words we have.

  Ruben:        Dr. Bohm agreed with me that whoever listens in
                unitary perception (holokinetic listening if you
                want) will have a changed molecular structure of the
                brain, of each neuron.

  Krishnamurti: Quite, quite.

  Ruben:        That brain will make contact in a conscious way with
                what you call "the ground".

  Krishnamurti: Perhaps, yes.

  There was an art show later. I discussed "Discipline" in Brockwood
  Park with Mathew Lazarus. When I met Krishnamurti, I told him:

  Ruben:        I was talking about "discipline" with one of the
                students. He said that western students define
                discipline in Brockwood as "strict". Eastern
                students consider it "loose".

  Krishnamurti: Discipline is the skill to learn.
                You either have it or you don't.

                             ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

  Ruben:        Krishnaji, as I told you three years ago I don't
                see much meaning in working as a physician in a
                society that is getting more and more corrupt by the
                minute. You told me in 1975 that I shouldn't quit
                psychiatry (as I quit pediatric surgery) and that I
                should change psychiatry. What I see is that it is
                difficult for people to understand the basics of the
                new psychology and the new physics and even if they
                do understand nothing seems to happen... society
                continues to be based upon war...

  Krishnamurti: Why do you separate God and work? Why can't you be
                joyful, peaceful, honest and creative in your work?