Theos-Talk Archives (January 1999 Message tl00003)

In response to posting an excerpt on CWL's clairvoyance, some questions
were raised. I am posting the five part msg from which I excerpted the
passage.

mkr

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Hi Rob,  I'd like to follow your example and post a K text. I got it
from David Walker who gathered together a small e-mail group of people
interested in k. He mailed it to us in five discrete segments.  I'll do
the same.  I don't know enough about computers to do it otherwise.
Regards, Hermann

David Walker wrote:

  Dear Friends,

  This is the first piece by Dr. Ruben Feldman-Gonzalez recalling
  his dialogues with Krishnamurti.

  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

                          P R O L O G U E

  During my encounters with people many asked me to write of my
  dialogues with Krishnamurti, even knowing I would be retrieving
  them only from my memory since only a few had been recorded.
  So it was that I started to think of writing some of my memories
  down.

  Nevertheless, some other friends felt that it was unnecessary to
  write my memories since Krishnamurti had done such a beautiful work
  of exposition of life and truth for mankind with his own books,
  videos and audiotapes.

  I hope that anyone who reads "My Dialogues with Krishnamurti" feels
  the need to read Krishnamurti himself.

  I have almost stopped reading, and if I do it is only to read
  "Krishnamurti Journals" or "Commentaries On Living" by Krishnamurti
  and "Collected Works of Krishnamurti" (17 volumes Kendall-Hunt)
  (1933-1967).

                     Looking For The North

  Political contradiction in Argentina was always high.

  It came to one of its highest points, though, by the end of August
  1972.

  During this time a group of leftist, guerrilla men and women were
  killed while in jail at Trelew-Argentina, and I was horrified to
  hear that one of them had been a friend of the family.

  I started to get phone calls prompting me to take sides in the
  armed struggle: "If you are not for the left you are for the
  right", a man's voice had told me on the phone before he hung-up
  while I was taking care of a recently born baby in Villada,
  Argentina, Aug. 23rd 1972.

  The following day I went to Buenos Aires to get a visa to the
  U.S.A. (1972).

  If man looses respect for life we are all at risk from each other.
  Man becomes his own executioner.

  Only after two years I got a temporary visa to enter the U.S.A.
  Every Argentinian was suspicious then.

  I stopped over in Puerto Rico. There was a man there I wanted to
  meet: Enrique Biascoechea.

  I did meet him. He was dying. He had been a friend of Krishnamurti
  since age nine.

  He wrote a letter to Krishnamurti telling him that I had left
  behind my parents, two baby sons, possessions, friends, profession,
  comfort, and status in order to travel to meet with him.

  That was in June 1974. Enrique died in Nov 1974.

  After reaching the U.S. I soon found myself working 16 hours a day
  as a resident physician in Pennsylvania. I needed a dictionary to
  dictate my notes. Of the other eight hours of the day I spent four
  in the basement to study medicine in  English to revalidate my
  license. I slept three or four hours a day and ate only once a day,
  taking coffee in the morning and again at lunchtime simply to keep
  myself awake.

  Sometimes I wondered how my body could bear so much abuse!

  I got letters from Argentina: "Misery. My family and my friends
  kept disappearing".

  I had given up hope to meet Krishnamurti when I got a letter from
  Mrs. Zimbalist, dated Jan. 5th 1975 in Ojai, California telling me
  I had a personal interview with Krishnamurti on march 23rd at 4
  P.M. at the Huntington Hotel in San Francisco, California.

  Mrs. Zimbalist volunteered her time for Krishnamurti as a devoted
  secretary. She is the widow of the late Sam Zimbalist who had
  produced the reknowned film "Ben Hur".

  At four P.M. on March 23rd 1975 sharp I knocked at Krishnamurti's
  door. Mrs. Zimbalist did everything to make me feel comfortable.

  Krishnmurti came after five minutes. I stood up from the armchair
  to shake his hand. He looked smaller than I expected him to be. He
  wore an old blue jacket. He sat in front of me with nothing in
  between the two chairs. Mrs. Zimbalist left silently.

  We sat there looking at each other. I will never be able to
  describe that moment when Krishnmurti was gazing at me.

  I felt at the same time all the love I had felt for my parents, my
  sons, my girlfriends, my friends (dead or alive)...

  There was long silence.

  Krishnamurti said: Biascoechea says you are ready to work for the
  Foundation.

  I said:       I may not be wise or free enough for that.

  Krishnamurti: You will.

  Ruben:        What would the work imply?

  Krishnamurti: Publishing books, videos and tapes.

  Ruben:        That implies managing money.

  Krishnamurti: Millions of dollars.

  Ruben:        That horrifies me. I'm not ready for that. I thought
                I would have to travel with you, type your lectures
                from recorded tapes.... things like that.

  Krishnamurti: (Laughing) You can do more than that Dr...

  Ruben:        My name is Ruben Ernesto Feldman-Gonzalez.

  Krishnamurti: That's confusing, may I call you Dr. Gonzalez?

  Ruben:        Of course, but my real name is Anger.

  Krishnamurti: (touching my left knee) Ah! I'm glad you don't wear
                a mask like so many that come to me pretending to be
                saints.

  Ruben:        I'm far from that. I feel a complete repugnance for
                the so-called political situation of Argentina, my
                country of birth, and even for the way my profession
                is practiced. I'm a pediatric surgeon. I had started
                to study psychiatry (July 1974) in Pennsylvania to
                see why the world has gone so crazy. Nevertheless I'm
                not impressed, the approach to treatment in
                psychiatry is conventional... standardized. I'll
                leave psychiatry too. I don't know what I will do.

  Krishnamurti: Don't leave psychiatry. Change it.

  Ruben:        I never thought you would give me concrete advice
                like that. It sounds absurd though. Changing
                psychiatry sounds like changing the color of the
                crickets of the world.

  Krishnamurti: You have to change psychiatry.

  Ruben:        I wish I knew what you meant.

  Krishnamurti: You have to meet Dr. David Bohm in London. Let's go
                there soon.

  Ruben:        I wish I could, perhaps if I get a loan.

  Krishnamurti: No! Don't ask for a loan. You'll meet him soon
                anyway.

  Ruben:        I need to make changes. I have no peace. Friends have
                disappeared in Argentina. Everything seems so chaotic
                and corrupt....

  Krishnamurti: (smiling) You need exercise (Krishnamurti touched my
                belly with the tip of his left index finger).

  Ruben:        I work 16 hours a day and then I have to sit to study
                for four hours a day before I go to sleep. All this
                to renew my medical license in the USA.

  Krishnamurti: That's an excuse. Take care of yourself. You need
                exercise. You look like a bull.

  Ruben:        Sometimes I feel that I need to share my
                understanding with people around the world. What do
                you say to that?

  Krishnamurti: You speak.

  A very long silence followed. I had expected him to tell me to
  "stay put" and spend the rest of my life in silent meditation. With
  very few words he was the perfect mirror for my own contradictions
  to emerge and be clearly seen.

  He insisted:  The Foundation in Puerto Rico has no head. I hope
                you will take it (he grabbed my left knee).

  Ruben:        Krishnaji, when I was with Biascoechea everything
                seemed so easy. Now I see I don't have the peace of
                mind, the right skills nor the freedom (the sons and
                two parents to feed) to dedicate myself sensibly to
                such an important and difficult task. It is certainly
                no picnic.

  Krishnamurti: I hope you take it.

  Another long silence followed.

  Krishnamurti discussed several items regarding the Foundation's
  translations, people like Salvado Sendra, Vimala Thakar, personal
  and ideological struggles within the Foundations, etc.

  Ruben:        I'm eager to meet Salvador and Vimala... but people
                from the Fourth Path are trying to mix what you say
                with what others have said and are quite willing to
                control the Foundations.

  Krishnamurti: That has been going on all the time and not only with
                them. The Fourth Path is a path of violence which
                reinforces the ego and the wish to control life and
                its course. Do not touch it. The first insight is to
                drop everything non-essential for the total
                liberation of mankind.

  Ruben:        Now that you mention the non-essential.... Why did
                you allow the biography of yours written by Lutyens
                to be published? It's gossipy and superficial, and it
                may not be right selling "At the Feet of the Master"
                ... with your name on it.

  Krishnamurti: Not my books.

  Ruben:        And they are making a profit.

  Krishnamurti: It's not my business.

  Ruben:        How would you recommend your books to be read, and
                in what order?

  Krishnamurti: Do not read them like a novel. Read slowly as if your
                life was in every word and every sentence. Start with
                the last one and then if there is an interest go
                backwards through the first one.

  Ruben:        Should we read all your books?

  Krishnamurti: If you take a train in San Francisco to go to Los
                Angeles... would you get off in Santa Barabara?

  We both laughed. One had to laugh very often in the company of
  Krishnamurti. Today the order of the books would be:

  "Ending of Time"
  "The Awakening of Intelligence"
  "Commentaries on Living"
  "Journal"
  "Freedom from the Known", etc.
  "Collected Works" (1933-67)

  I asked:       Why don't you eat meat?

  He answered:   Pity.

  I expected a longer lecture but that was all he said. Again a long
  silence. The silence was alive, the silence of two alert friends
  seeing together the same thing at the same time.

  He stood up and said. "Excuse me Dr. Gonzalez, I'll prepare some
  tea for you".

  At the kitchen in the big suite he whispered something with Mrs.
  Zimbalist who was sitting there.

  He came back with a cup of tea. He said: "Tea of roses for you".

  I sipped it, but I didn't like it. I left it on the little table
  beside us.

  Ruben:        Can we talk about meditation?

  Krishnamurti: Is there anything else?

  Ruben:        Well, the very word meditation is used by gurus of
                all kinds to make money, sell silly books,
                techniques, pillows, crystals, mantras, and incense.

  Krishnamurti: I have been using the word for 50 years. I can't
                change it now. People will have to see I use the word
                with a different meaning. I do not use the word
                meditation with its traditional meaning!

  Ruben:        What about using the expression "Unitary Perception"
                instead.

  Krishnamurti: You use it.

  (Krishnamurti said he would not use the word meditation anymore
  during his last talk in England in 1985, ten years later.)

  Krishnamurti: Why not live very simply?
                Call it meditation or Unitary Perception.
                Self protection and self aggrandizement through money
                making and success have to end in order to live
                simply. To live simply is to live intelligently,
                without an observer in observation. If you believe
                you have to go back to Argentina to be loyal to some
                concept of yours you are not simple. If you are angry
                you are not simple. If you are full of sorrow you
                can't love anyone. Can you be spontaneous and simply
                act with not too much planning?

  Ruben:        You are not saying I have to remain alone and live in
                poverty and silence.

  Krishnamurti: Would that be simple?
                Would you be escaping from life?
                The consummation of truth is not to be successful or
                wealthy... but do you want complete truth?
                Look for success or money and you'll find
                frustration. Look for truth and you'll receive total
                peace of mind and joy. Will you be one of the few? Or
                will you continue being one of the many worshippers
                of money and success?

  After a long silence, he said: "Dr. Gonzalez, your tea must be cold
  already, finish it!"

  I didn't have the courage to say no and I did finish it silently.

  He said: "Let's meet tomorrow at eight A.M.

  Krishnamurti went with me to the door, opened it for me and smiled
  lovingly saying: "Good bye".

  I said:       What noun should be applied to what you teach--
                "message", "gospel",..., or what?

  Krishnamurti said: Call it "the teachings". Let's meet tomorrow
                at eight A.M., right here.

  I spend the rest of the afternoon by myself in my room, which I had
  rented at the same hotel where Krishnamurti was staying.

  I felt like a Condor for the rest of the day.

  I met Krishnamurti by chance in the lobby that evening. I walked
  with him for awhile.

  I saw a couple of very beautiful girls.

  I said: "God, how beautiful they are".

  He said: "Only well fed".

  I said: "Krishnaji, I felt like a Condor the whole afternoon, full
  of peace and joy and love. I think it's because I spent some time
  with you."

  Krishnamurti said: "For how long do you want to be infected?"

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