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Re: December 08, 1998 - karma

Dec 08, 1998 11:22 PM
by kymsmith

Tony wrote:

>If we could truly see our past lives it would be a far crueler fate.  Most
>find this life enough to cope with, without reliving the cruelties of
>Atlantis for example, whether that cruelty be by you or to you.

When I look back on my own life, I do not see it as a "cruel fate."  Why
would I think the same of my other lives?  I can look back and see where I
made mistakes and where I learned and where I loved and where I loathed -
but looking back makes me realize just how much in THIS life I have
learned.  Why would I not discover the same in a previous life?

But, at the same time, I do see your point.  I cannot say that I could
handle it if I found out I had been a Nazi or torturer or some other
destructive-type person.  Could I handle the guilt?  Am I mature enough to
see it in its whole context?  No, I'm not sure I could.

>It is difficult to be sure that all cruelty can be put down to ignorance.
>In "The Voice of the Silence," for example: "But even ignorance is better
>than Head-learning with no Soul-wisdom to illuminate and guide it."

When I carefully studied this statement I saw a redundancy.  Since
ignorance is lack of wisdom then "no Soul-wisdom" IS ignorance - even
though HPB seems to be trying to separate the two terms and concepts.  I
believe, with this particular statement, she has failed to make a valid point.

Perhaps you could help me and explain the difference between "ignorance"
and "no Soul-wisdom?"

>Karma is "just" - making for a balance.  To look at it the other way round,
>if you did some real injustice to another, would you honestly just want to
>get away with it?  Wouldn't you want to set the record straight, put things

Yes! And this is the reason why I believe that KNOWING what one has done is
necessary in order for karma to truly be of value.  How can I "put things
right" if I do not know what I have wronged?

>On TV, for an example, sometimes  parents who have had their child murdered
>(e.g., tortured to death with films taken by the purpatrators of them being
>tortured to death) come on to relate their experience 10 years later.  Some
>are so utterly tormented by their horrific ideal that even their physical
>bodies look tortured too. Others react differently and have a loving
>It would be unjust if there were no law of Karma, and that they would
>perhaps never find peace.

Well, since the parent will NEVER know the karma of the person who killed
their child (if you are alluding to this?), I do not see how they will find
"peace" within the concept of karma.  Karma does not provide "peace" if we
do NOT know that justice truly occurred - just because someone tells us it
is, as Theosophy attempts to do, does not mean it is so and due to karma's
elusiveness it is little comfort in situations in which you spoke about
above.  Doubt is ever present due to the passage of time, illogical
theories, and lack of personal knowledge of karmic reasons/outcomes.

>It would also seem unjust if in their next life
>they were born with the knowledge of the terrible suffering of their past
>life, rather than it being hidden for the time being.

I find this hard to buy because I don't think I would feel a "motherly"
instinct toward someone who was my child in a past life - the emotions,
circumstances, and family life of my current lifetime would play a big
role.  If someone held up to me a picture of a child and said "Look, this
was once your child in a previous lifetime and she was tortured to death" I
doubt I would be wracked with "parental" pain.  Of course, the thought of
any child being murdered would cause me horror, but the "family" pain may
be absent.  When I look at pictures of my ancestors, I am not filled with
great emotion even though I am in a way "linked" to them.

In the testimonies of people who claim to have discovered a past life, I
don't recall many of them being moved to great pain and grief over events
that occurred in those times.  There is some emotional reaction, of course,
but I've never heard of someone actually being traumatized by learning that
they or someone they loved was murdered.  Often, they seem to find great
relief in knowing why they have felt certain ways in their current lifetime.

There are people on this list who have uncovered past lives (Alan comes to
mind) - he is far more knowledgeable in this area than I am.  Maybe he will
discuss the emotions he felt when he learned of his past lives.  (hint, hint)

>You may "hope to NOT give a damn over whether someone hurt me in
>this lifetime or not when I die, why should I want karma to give a damn?"
>You may hope not to give a damn, but what about everybody else, relations,
>family, friends, children, your dog, etc.?  Can you expect them not to give
>a damn?

Tony, why in the world would I WANT my loved ones to give a damn?  Would I
rather not want them to be at "peace" and full of forgiveness?  Do I want
to believe that my loved ones would want others to suffer because of some
injustice committed lifetimes ago to them?  Of course I don't - because, to
me, that means that compassion has yet to fully penetrate the hearts of my
loved ones (and I include myself).  No, Tony, I do not expect them to give
a damn - and I hope with all my heart that both they and I do not.

>Our (me and you) ignorance of Karma is part of the problem Kym.

I agree, but I believe you're being far too kind to the doctrine of karma
postulated by Theosophy and other belief systems.  Karma itself appears to
be part of the problem, too.



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