Theos-Talk Archives (January 1998 Message tl00011)

Hi,

I've been wondering about mysticism in light of the discoveries of
relativity, quantum, and superstring theories.  I'm also interested in
hearing about numerology and geometry.  Is the mystical use of numbers and
geometry related to contact with higher dimensions?  I may be going
nowhere, but am very curious.

Following is my conversation in theos-world.  I thought I would post it to
theos-l to widen my possibility of answers.  Calling all Kabbalists!!!

Thanks,
Thoa :o)

************************
>Dear Thoa T.:
>
>I hope this address is proper .

Thoa T...Sounds like some rap musician.  I could go for that!

>As to non-Euclidean mathematics -- is it not to be applied in questions of
>quantum mechanics ?  Are there not some serious mathematicians and
>electrical engineers presently engaged in developing a super-computer which
>will use both of these systems in making for a new development, perhaps
>several years off ?  String theory might also be implicated in this, or
>maybe I did not get the philosophy right.

I was actually referring to the theory of relativity, but non-Euclidean
mathematics also apply to quantum mechanics.  That's another exciting topic
I would like to get from a mystical point of view.  Regarding the quantum
computer, they'll have to solve the problem of quantum interference.  It's
tantalizing that a computer has to tune in to one of the parallel worlds to
solve its problems. I also can't wait to hear about the development of the
superstring theory that joins the relativity theory with the quantum
theory.  The interesting thing about the superstring theory is that it
connects the symmetry of subatomic particles to the symmetry of higher
dimensions, yet working only in the geometry of the ten and 26 dimensions.

As an aside, I wonder whether there are some individuals who are, from
birth, especially attuned to the universe.  Besides Einstein, there was a
mathematician named Srinivasa Ramanujan, who, like Einstein, became
somewhat of a failure due to his obsession with mathematical equations
only.  Again, like Einstein, he was working in a lowly job away from other
mathematicians, when he came up with equations never before seen.  It was
his equations that helped make the superstring theory coherent.

I also wonder about the mystics who are able to travel to other dimensions
via their minds alone.  After all, it is only in this century that science
is developing a common idea with the ancient Hindu texts.  This is
especially true with the theory of relativity connecting space-time and
matter-energy, and the quantum theory with its reliance on consciousness
affecting the action of subatomic matter.  Both theories basically depend
on subjectivity, that there is no such thing as objectivity.  Using the
quantum theory, we can push that even further and realize that subjectivity
is ONE consciousness.

This reminds me of Krisnamurti declaring that mind is matter.  With
evidence pointing to the importance of subjectivity, this seems to be true.
Those yogis probably were doing incredible feats.  Just because the rest
of us have not developed our minds to such an extent does not mean that
such feats are impossible.  Unencumbered by physical mass, they could
travel through the universe in light speed, travel back in time, become
psychically attuned, etc.

As far as dealing with our world of third-dimension, the awareness that we
are ONE, that I am you, is enough to change our conduct accordingly.  That
is why I am in favor of loving our lower selves along with our higher
selves.  Take the analogy of a lotus growing in the mud.  The lotus sprouts
from the mud, shoots through the water, and blossomed in the air to radiant
beauty.  Even as the lotus shines in its beauty, its root is in the mud
that nourishes it.  For the lotus to deny the mud or have contempt for the
mud is like hating the dark womb that it came out of.  This loving of our
lower self will only result in more compassion and love for others.  The
effect of love and acceptance is amazing.

I'll give you a personal story.  When I first learned to break boards with
my heel, I ended up with bruises and abrasions on my heel and leg.  As it
happened, I had to have a physical that week.  My doctor is a holistic
doctor.  As she examined me, I told her that I have bruises from breaking
boards.  I was waiting for her to tell me that I don't need to do stuff
like that, and I was ready to defend it.  Surprisingly, she said, "I bet
you felt great when you break that board."  I told her that it was very
empowering.  Something in me felt really good and relaxed because of that
acceptance.

Oh, how I digress.  Let's see whether I can answer some of your questions.
I'm no scientist, just an avid reader.  Thank goodness that some scientists
want to share their interests with the rest of us by writing in forms that
we can understand.  I used to study engineering and some of those books
still boggle my little brain.  If the schools had taught mysticism in
relation to physics, I would have become a physicist instead of an artist.
I love art, though.

>The implication of universal sensitivity and intermeshing seems to be
>important as a concept.  Mathematics would then try to analyze either or
>both of the following:  effect on a unit  (How defined ?) and, effect on a
>given mass (or a Unity of certain Units), and effect on the WHOLE.
>
>Seems to me we have several difficult concepts:
>
>1.      What is a "unit ?" what does it do ? where is it located ?

A unit was previously thought to be a perfect geometric division of the
universe.  However, with the superstring theory, it seemed to be a string.
This is not so far off when you consider the fact that life is composed of
DNA, another string.  As it is, the superstring theory contains both the
string and Einstein's gravitational geometry.  According to this theory,
the smallest matter is the harmonies of the vibrating string.  The string's
constraining movement through space-time is what creates Einstein's
geometry.

>2.      Assuming that there are "hosts" of "units" there will be some that
>resemble each other in their properties and others that are different, but
>perhaps inter-related in other ways.  How to define ?

All goes back to that string.  It is because of the limitless number of
harmonies that there can be an infinite number of possibilities of matter,
life, etc.

>3.      Distance and space are involved - How ?

I think you meant space and time.  Einstein found interchangeableness
between space-time and mass-energy using non-Euclidian mathematics.  Again,
"c" was the factor that linked the two groups.  By using the gravitational
law, he was able to see that gravity was the result of the interaction of
space-time with
mass-energy.  Firstly, the closer space is to a mass, the more space curves
and compresses. This was proven by observation of the bending of the stars'
light beams as they pass by the mass of the sun.   Secondly, time slows as
it nears mass.  In his example, if a twin were to go off into space for a
while (in zero gravity) and then come back to earth, he would find that he
is older than his twin.

>4.      Time is a factor, since the constant change of innumerable
>relationships
>is not only recorded somewhere ( How and where ?) and that would imply some
>immovable and permanent recording medium [ Akasa ? ]
>as well as beings that were the 'recorders' [ Lipika ? ] -- I am using
>designations drawn from THE SECRET DOCTRINE.

According to relativity, with the speed of light, we can (although not
possible physically, but perhaps mentally) be at every place at the same
time.  At the speed of light, time stands still.  Since it looks like past,
present, and future is only an illusion, and consciousness is ONE, is there
really a need for a recording medium?  It seems to me that this recording
medium is one huge memory bank.  Since time is an illusion, why is there
need for memory?

>5.      All this against the grand and unknown fabric (if fabric be allowed to
>indicate some "substance") of the outskirts of the ABSOLUTE -- ???

Outskirts, girdle, hem, the whole s/he-bangy of the ABSOLUTE.

>6.      Method of interaction ?

Time-space-matter-energy along with little strings.

>7.      Nature of force or power used in making impact or measuring the effects

You can read tons of experimental data and observations supporting
relativity and quantum theories.  I guess this is what you meant.

>8.      Purpose of making investigation and record ?  Motive - ethics ?

Originally, it was to KNOW.  Afterwards, all the businessmen take over.
Creative people create because they have to, businessmen use the creation
to make money.

>9.      General trend and purpose of Evolution involving units and UNITY.

Looks like it's always been there.  It's just us in our three-dimesional
world to figure it all out.  The world is flat when you only see it in your
little plot of land.

>10.     What kind of a power has the "mind" to envisage such questions and ask
>them ?  Seems to me that there is a POWER which lies/lives behind the
>"mind" and directs it as one does a "tool" to apply itself to various
>considerations.  some start from the point of view of the material universe
>and other start from the universal assumptions which we designate
>"spiritual."  But implicit in those 2 is the 3rd - the mental, and 4th the
>moral.

Yes, I believe that.  As I said, some geniuses seemed so connected to the
universe that they have no choice but to do what they need to do.

>Now I do not know if this satisfies your questions or opens up the field
>for more to come, or even if it is a worthwhile logic ?

I would love to hear the mystical version of all this.  I am a beginning
student of theosophy and would like to learn more.  Gee, I didn't even talk
about numbers.  Anybody has answers to the mystical workings of numbers and
geometry in light of recent discoveries?  Could the mystical workings of
numbers and geometry be related to contact with higher dimensions?

>                        All the best to you,            Dallas

And you, too, Dallas.

Thoa :o)

What is matter?
Don't mind
What is mind?
Don't matter

-Homer Simpson