Theos-Talk Archives (November 1997 Message tl00070)

In a message dated 97-11-03 11:59:58 EST, you write:

To Nicole:
Greetings!

Nicole,  I am sorry for the delay in answering.  You ask such good thought
provoking questions and comments I must strain my brain to think of the
reply.
<<   "obsessive">>

 Maybe we should first try to make sure, what each of us considers the
 above expression to be. To me "obsessive" means to "think and feel
 that another person belongs (as if one had been buying a human beeing
 in a store) to a person, as if the other person would be an article out
 of material and not a lifing beeing. Do you define "obsessive" in the
 same way?>>

I think in more inclusive terms about obsession.  I totally agree with you
but I include an interest or focus on one specific person or point beyond
rationality.  i.e. black & white thinking.  I think many issues in life are
gray and contextual and therefore can not be one way or another or pat
answers.  A possible scenario is the person who shows no self esteem allowing
the person to treat them badly because they are *obssessed* by them.
 *Example:  A woman may stay in an abusive relationship with a man or her
husband for years because she is *obsessed* with her love for this person.
 Allowing him to be irresponsible.  i.e.  financial problems, no sense of
commitment to her but expecting commitment from her. *  This is not, IMO,
unconditional love (her) but obsession (lunacy).  This may not be an case of
ownership although ownership is the more common trait exhibited.  They're are
probably more examples where ownership isn't key to the obsession but at the
moment they allude me.  Thinking more along the lines of  unconditional love
the *unconditional love* from the Higher Self will aid the person's growth.
 It may look unlike *love* but serves as a motivation to help the person
develop spiritually. 

<< "Higher Self or Spirit HAS no limitations and is shared, therefore no
 shields or borders."

 To me Higher Self sometimes is shared and sometimes is not. There
 are also boarders for one's own spiritual well being. It's upon me to
 decide what I share and what I won't - it's all out of my free will.>>

While I agree with you about free will I still hold what I said about the
Higher Self.  In the "Key to Theosophy" facsimile edition  (I have found the
"Key" an excellent study source and point of reference) it clearly speaks of
different levels of Souls.  Human, Individual/Ego or that which incarnates,
and Spiritual Soul.  I think it depends on which one we are talking about.
 It is clear the Higher Self or Buddhi-Atma is shared.  The Ego on the plane
of Manas is individual.  The implication is we are in a shared state at that
level.   The Alice Bailey books make it pretty clear "There is no me and thee
Soul but a shared Soul".  In the Ocean of Theosophy by William Judge, he
speaks about the "Higher Self" being Atma, Buddhi. Manas as  the "Divine Ego"
P57.  It is all seems very complicated and I found it good information to
reflect over.  

 <<"getting us to drop these limitations and be more inclusive"

 Yes and now - if dropping the limitations is used to make out a team
 of a hierarchy it's a creative way to become more inclusive but if to
 become more inclusive is done under pressure I don't consider it
 to be a good way.>>

Amen!  Total agreement.  Pressure, after it builds up, creates an explosion.
 And where would we be then!!

<< "The subject of unconditional love lends itself to the subject of unity of
 spirit."

 Could you give me a sample of a situation you have in mind, which
 makes you say "unconditional love lends itself to unity of spirit".>>

This ties into earlier comments on Atma-Buddhi and Higher Self.  There is a
point we reach, usually, momentary where we KNOW we are a shared
consciousness.  Example:  Sometimes, it's through awareness of what is going
on with the other person.   Sometimes known as telepathy perhaps empathy or
compassion is closer but doesn't really describe it.   (I think the moment of
shared consciousness must be very similar to states of Samadhi written about
in books.)   Another example:  I have read (still only a conceptualization)
we are shared at Buddhi- Atma.  Then the realization my friend or neighbor
doesn't irritate me any more because I KNOW we share the same Divinity or
Higher Essence and this is there way of expressing it (which may show a lack
of growth on one or more of our parts) and my PERSONAL experience or likes
and dislikes causes me to  like or not like their behavior.  Then you start
to let some of the petty things in life go.  You recognize their right to be
who they are.  Even if their an ASS!  And you accept them for it.  (Sorry for
the profanity, I'm trying to make a point).  We could discuss more on the
subject of unity if you like.  I'm trying to be brief.

 <<I am learning a lot while trying to discuss with you. Thank you for that.
 >>

Ditto!  Remember, I'm still learning.  This is only where I am at now.
 Subject to change.

Namaste!
crp (Catherine)