Sep 20, 1997 02:11 PM
For Titus: "Amen" to your insightful comments in Digest 1247 ... with one
exception. When you said: <maybe his [Judas's] makeup gave him no choice>
[concerning his decision to betray Christ], I cannot agree that this is a
valid excuse. As a Perfect Universe proponent, I find myself obligated to
contend that we are always responsible for our choices (that is what "Free
Will" is all about). But with responsibility goes authority. That is why
the Law (in this context, karmic law) conveys to each of us the capability
(authority) to determine our own future ... and holds each of us account-able
(responsible) for whatever ensues from the choices that we make. Always bear
in mind that, while the karmic wheels may at times seem to grind exceedingly
slowly, they also grind exceedingly fine (are you listening, Chuck the
Heretic?). Oh yes, as a student of the Bible I am well aware of Matthew
5:45. But I maintain that Jesus was referring to the single lifetime of each
of his listeners (who in all probability simply would not have understood or
accepted any reference to a larger (and longer) scheme of things).
Certainly, over the near-term, the verse squares nicely with our own
experience. But perhaps it is a little like having a contractor promise you
a beautiful home "soon." So, a week or two later, you go out to the building
site and quickly decide the contractor lied to you. After all, there is
metal scaffolding all over the place, the wall studding and electrical wiring
is exposed and drywall "mud" is splattered on the concrete slab, etc.. In
general, your home looks terrible and you certainly wouldn't care to live
there. On the other hand, I believe we can both agree that, if you wait
awhile (say, two months instead of two weeks), to go out to the site, you
will encounter the beautiful home that the contractor promised. Thus, if I
could revise Matthew 5:45 just a little (and I can hear a million voices
shouting: "well, sport, you CAN'T"), I would have it read, in part: ... and
he seemeth to send rain on the just and on the unjust. For, over the
short-term, in many cases that is exactly the way things seem to be. But I
contend that, over the long-term (possibly, as Doss pointed out, as long as a
manvantara or two), rain falls on the unjust ... and only sunlight falls on
the just. In a Perfect Universe it cannot be otherwise.
For Drpsionic: See my comments to Titus (above). In my view you are making
the common mistake of considering far too short a time-span when you
formulate your views about the universe. You said (in Digest 1247): <...
remember that Stalin died peacefully on his couch ...>. And I say: indeed he
did (even though a few Historians have speculated that a pillow placed firmly
over his face hastened the process a little). I consider an instance such as
this one to be quite ironic because it results in "C the H" proclaiming in
this lifetime: "See? He got away with it" ... while in some future lifetime
the entity known in this lifetime as Stalin may possibly proclaim: "Why is
all this S-----tuff happening to me? I can't possibly deserve it! Boy, this
universe really SUCKS!!" And it may be that both of you need further
For Jerry: reference your interesting comments in Digest 1247, there is a
very subtle (yet valid) principle in play here. To use an analogy: what if I
were to say to you: "Jerry, I have a perfect car; go see for yourself." So
you go and drive it for awhile and, after you return, you say to me: "Wow,
you really are full of it when you try to tell me that your car is perfect!
I just got through driving it ... and the steering is too stiff, the
transmission grinds a little on occasion and three of your tires are badly
worn although the fourth one looks great. So where do you get off telling me
your car is perfect?" And I reply as gently as I can: "Jerry, Jerry, don't
you see? The steering is stiff because this is an old car and the steering
shaft is in need of lubrication. The transmission grinds now and then
because one of the bearings is excessively worn and this permits two of the
gear cogs to clash. As for the tires, three of them have 80,000 miles on
them and the fourth one is practically new. I just bought it two days ago.
So, given these conditions, none of them mysterious or supernatural, my car
is in exactly the condition that it should be in. It PERFECTLY displays in
every aspect what it should display. On the other hand, if it was not a
perfect vehicle, you might well have discovered that the steering and
transmission were fine but the new tire was badly worn while the other three
with 80,000 miles on them looked brand new. When I tell you that my car is
perfect I don't mean that you will necessarily like what you learn about it.
What I mean is that it perfectly displays (no more and no less) all of the
attributes that it should, given the laws of the universe which are,
themselves, perfect." With regard to your other concerns vis-a-vis a Perfect
Universe, I have in times past shared those concerns ... and found answers
for many of them (although, being human, it is at least possible that some of
my answers are wrong). Obviously, it would take far too long to try and
address each of them in this post so I will just offer this piece of advise:
Careful, Jerry, a wise man once said: "never say never." Oh well, perhaps I
will try to answer just ONE (out of deference to those on this list who may
find themselves thinking "enough of karma, already"). You said (in Digest
1247): <karma simply does not account for all that happens (sometimes we fall
victim to collective karma rather than our own personal karma ... which I
often call the Chaos Factor because it comes to us from outside ourselves and
there is very little we can do about it)>. I reply: I believe you are
mistaken, Jerry. Karma does (and must) account for everything that happens.
But personal karma, being much more limited in scope, does not (and often
can not). There is an interesting Biblical verse (Genesis 4:9) wherein Cain
asks God: "... am I my brother's keeper?" Since God elected not to answer
Cain directly I will be so bold as to do so (no flames, please). "Yes, Cain,
you ARE your brother's keeper ... and so is everybody else!"
For, in the grand scheme of things (yes, I know, "there you go again,"
Dennis, with your Perfect Universe assertion), I have met the enemy (i.e.
everything else) ... and it is ME! Thus, if I am indeed my brother's keeper,
it must follow as the night the day that I am also responsible for my
brother's karma --- at least in a collective sense. Now everybody relax.
With considerable restraint I shall refrain from launching into a long
(because it is very complicated) explanation concerning the interrelationship
of personal and group karma except to state that there definitely is one.
But back to you, Jerry, I believe it is wrong to think there is "little we
can do about it." Oh yes, all of us who happen to be in incarnation just now
must operate within clearly limiting physical parameters (ex: if you don't
have a million dollars it is obviously impossible for you to make a personal
contribution of a million dollars to your favorite charity). But within the
parameters, whether they be great or small, you can do as much or as little
as you like. We shall bear the ultimate responsibility in either case. So
much for "indifference", right Kym?
Again, NAMASTE to all. This has been an enlightening discussion of karma
and its many ramifications. Dennis
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