Theos-Talk Archives (September 1997 Message tl00329)

First, let me say I'm impressed with all the discussion that has come out.  It
seems full of honest inquiry.

kymsmith@micron.net wrote:

> Titus wrote:

>> Though I wouldn't choose those words, I basically agree.  This doesn't
>> justify a karmic pawn like Hitler.  "It must needs be that offenses come,
>> but woe to the man by whom the offense cometh."

> This reasoning, to me, seems a vicious circle.  If it "must" be that
> offenses come, then someone "has" to be the 'person by whom the offense
> cometh.

[snip]

> To me, cold, rational thought would say that Judas was/is as much
> responsible for 'redeeming' the world as Jesus was/is.

You do have interesting questions and points.  Certainly we shouldn't be too
glib and unthinking in our ideas of karma.  Compassion is called for at all
times.

I don't have a cut and dried answer to your points, but FWIW, here are my
thoughts ...

Judas did play a role in the drama.  But your analogy would be like saying the
wastebasket in a jet plane is as responsible for the plane getting to its
destination as the engines.  There is possibly some truth to it.  I wouldn't
want to be on an airplane without a wastebasket, or the on-off switch to the
engines, or the wings, or any of the parts.  They are all essential.  I'd
humbly settle for being the door, or the cabin lights, but who wants to be the
wastebasket?

[snip]

> I guess my point is: if we can really say that we all get what we deserve,
> how can we then judge those who are part of fulfilling the lessons of karma?

It depends on what you mean by judge.  I wouldn't judge Judas the person,
because who knows what made him the way he was?  Maybe his makeup gave him no
choice.  Jesus forgave Judas and his backers, so I would try to do the same.
But I would judge the action.  Also, though Judas played his part in the
drama, he also probably paid a karmic penalty.  Who wants more karma?  Not me,
thanks.

> Maybe my hat of aluminum foil is getting its signals mixed up - but I can't
> accept this theory of karma anymore than I can accept a pound of purple poo
> as a Christmas gift.  It just doesn't fit.

Hey, purple poo is necessary a part of life - at least as long as we have
beets.  But then again, I see your point. ;)