Theos-Talk Archives (September 1997 Message tl00320)

Wow!  Where shall I begin to defend "The Perfect Universe?"  I guess with
Jerry because his post is easily addressed.  Jerry, when you ascribe karmic
acceptance to the higher, i.e. mental planes we can find some basis for
agreement.  I particularly liked your analogy that ran "if I am cut I will
bleed" ... because that is precisely what you will do and it matters not one
whit whether you "accept" the cut or not!  On the other hand, we have
enormous latitude at the mental level with regard to how we deal with our
karmic circumstances.  To cite two hypothetical examples, if you happen to
fall from a considerable height you will not only descend toward the center
of the earth but at an accelerating (and very precise) rate, i.e. 32 feet per
second per second until you attain what physicists call "terminal velocity"
.. unless, of course, you encounter some immovable object (generally the
ground) before that speed is reached.  And if you should happen to fall from
the same height 10,000 times, you will still accelerate at precisely the same
rate for precisely the same length of time.  Why?  Because the universe is
perfect, that's why.  The laws of physics are invariable --- at least on this
plane of existence.  Now, hopefully, nobody will post a Chaos Theory
objection to this statement.  I admit that I am no particle physicist but I
do know a little (probably just enough to get me into trouble) about Chaos
Theory and the only conclusion I can draw from it is that the fact (and at
the present time it IS a fact) that some events at the sub-atomic level are
not predictable only proves that at our present level of understanding about
particle physics we can't predict them.  It does not prove that they will
never be predictable.  As a "perfect universe" advocate, of course, I will go
way out on a limb and say (though I cannot at this time prove) that all
physical effects have precise causes and visa versa.  We simply haven't
progressed far enough yet to be able to fully understand the
interrelationships.  But we will, folks, trust me on this one.  It is only a
matter of time.  But the higher planes are a different story ... which leads
into the second hypothetical example.  Because of free will, level of
enlightenment and a host of other factors it is not possible to predict with
any degree of certainty what karmic effect will result from any particular
karmic cause on mental levels.  An event that might enrage me may only bring
a smile to your lips and visa versa.  We are not robots.  We are bound by
precise physical parameters ... but the mental parameters are almost
unlimited.  So, Jerry, your point about karmic acceptance being a major
player on higher levels is well taken. 
   For Kym: you wrote < I fear, Dennis, that the need "to protect [your]
perfect universe" may be leading you on the path of indifference >  Kym, you
couldn't possibly be more wrong about this!  It is precisely because this IS
a perfect universe that nobody can really afford to be "indifferent."  In a
less than perfect universe, you see, some might be able to get away with
transgressions ... but I choose to agree with Albert Einstein who once
remarked: "I cannot believe that God plays dice with the universe."  That is
the irony of it, Kym.  What you term "indifference" is only affordable in a
less than perfect universe which, precisely because it is imperfect, might
permit some (and perhaps many) to "slip through the karmic web."  But that
doesn't happen in a perfect universe.  Nobody slips by.  The apostle, Paul,
said it nicely in Galatians 6: 7 (NKJV):  Be not deceived; God is not mocked:
for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.  But in the less than
perfect universe that you apparently envision, Kym, that isn't necessarily
true, is it?  Because of imperfection in the Plan sometimes (perhaps even
often??) God IS mocked.  "Life's a beach ... and then you drown" ... right?
 Well, you are entitled to your views just as I am entitled to mine but on
this one I'll cast my vote with Paul.
   And speaking of Paul (as in K. Paul Johnson) ... he writes < One of the
big revelations to me after spending a month and a half in India is that the
Theosophical claim by HPB and other writers -- that if people believed in
reincarnation and karma they would behave better -- is flapdoodle bullshit >.
 On this one I think you are rushing to judgment, Paul.  The key word here is
"BELIEVED."  You have evidently decided that if someone is resident in India
and professes a belief in karma and reincarnation that surely such
individuals must truly believe in these concepts.  Not so, Paul.  Try this
Biblical adage: Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them [Matthew 7:20
(NKJV)].  Or, to use a more colloquial expression: "if it looks like a duck
and waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck --- it's a duck."  And it
doesn't much matter where it is or what else it may profess itself to be.
 The bottom line, Paul?  You show me someone who is indifferent to the
welfare of others (and I know that if we were in India together you could
point out a LOT of it) ... and I'll show you someone who does NOT believe in
karma and reincarnation and it doen't much matter that they vigorously
protest otherwise.  By their fruits ... .
   Finally, for Kym again: your Biblical quote: ... for it must needs be that
offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!  is right on
target.  And that is precisely why, in a perfect universe (but not
necessarily in an imperfect one), indifference to the welfare of others is
really not a luxury anyone can afford nor, if they truly believe in a perfect
universe, will they be inclined to try and afford it.  For the less
Biblically knowledgable, incidentally, Kym's verse can be found in Matthew
18: 7 (NKJV).    NAMASTE  -  Dennis