Guru, Tradition and Freedom (Part 1 of 2)
Jun 24, 1997 05:03 AM
============================Part 2 of 2 ===============================
K: When I listen, I seem to understand, but when I go away it is gone. The
question is fairly clear, "How is one who is not bright, one who is not
rational, to break through his conditioning and come upon it?" What is your
answer to this?
SW: My answer which is based on experience, and which is also the
traditional answer, is this: Let such a man practice some form of meditation
which makes the mind more alert.
K: That is, do certain practices, do certain exercises, breathing, etc.,
until the mind is capable of understanding. And someone else says, "When I
listen to you, I understand, but it slips away." These are the two problems.
Now let us consider how a mind that has no capacity can be capable of
seeing. How is such a mind capable of seeing, understanding without
practice, without the time process? Time implies process, right? How is such
a mind to come upon this without time?
My mind is dull, my mind does not have the clarity to understand this thing
immediately. So you tell me to practice, to breathe, to eat less; you ask me
to practice all the methods and systems which will help to make my mind
sharp, clear, sensitive. All that involves time, and when you allow time,
there are other factors which enter into the mind. The path on which I walk
is not straight and narrow; innumerable incidents, happenings, impressions
are going to change the movement of my direction - before I get there, I see
something beautiful, and I am carried away. And that thing which I am trying
to understand is not a fixed point either.
A: The point that it is not a fixed thing should be explored.
K: I say my mind is confused, is disturbed; I do not understand. You tell me
to understand by doing these things. So you have established understanding
as a fixed point, and it is not a fixed point.
SW: It is not a fixed point.
K: Obviously. If it is a fixed point, and I am going towards it, there are
other factors which enter into my journey towards it, and these factors are
going to influence me much more than the end.
A: That end is a projection of the unknowing mind.
K: That way is not the way at all. First, see this. It is not a fixed point,
and it can never be a fixed point; therefore, I say that is a false thing
altogether. Then, as that is not the way, when I deny the whole thing, I
have wiped away a tremendous field - all practices, all meditations, all
knowledge. Then what have I left? I am left with the fact that I am
confused, that I am dull.
Now, how do you know I am dull, how do you know I am confused? Only through
comparison, because I see that you are very perceptive and I say, through
comparison, through measurement, "I am dull."
I do not compare, and I see what I have done through comparison - I have
reduced myself to a state which I call dull. I see that is not the way
either. So I reject comparison. Am I dull then, if I do not compare? I have
rejected the system - a process, a fixed end which you have evolved as a
means of enlightenment through time. And I say, comparison is not the way;
measurement means distance.
SW: Does it mean that this understanding is not a matter vitally connected
with capacity at all? We started with capacity.
K: I listen to you, Swamiji, but I do not understand. I do not know what it
is that I do not understand, but you show me - time, process, fixed point,
etc. You show it to me, and I deny them. So what has happened to my mind? in
the very rejection, in the denial, the mind has become less dull. The
rejection of the false makes the mind clear; and the rejection of
comparison, which is false, makes the mind sharp.
So, what have I left now? I know I am dull only in comparison with you.
Dullness exists in my measuring myself with what is called brightness. I say
I will not measure. Then am I dull? I have completely rejected comparison
comparison means conformity. What have I left? The thing I have called dull
is not dull; it is - what is is. What have I left at the end of all this?
All that I have left is: I will not compare anymore; I will not measure
myself with somebody who is superior to me; and I will not tread this path
which is beautifully laid out for me. So I reject all the structures which
man has imposed upon me to achieve enlightenment.
So, where am 1? I start from the beginning. I know nothing about
enlightenment, understanding, process, comparison, becoming. I have thrown
them away. I do not know. Knowledge is the means of getting hurt, and
tradition is the instrument by which I get hurt. I do not want that
instrument, and, therefore, I am not hurt. I start with complete innocence.
Innocence means a mind that is incapable of being hurt.
Now I say to myself: "Why did they not see this simple fact that there is no
fixed point? Why did they pile all this on the human mind, which I have to
wade through in order to discard it all?"
It is very interesting, sir. Why go through this process if I have to
discard it? Why did you not tell me: "Do not compare; truth is not a fixed
point?" Do I flower in goodness through comparison? Can humility be gained
through time and practice? Obviously not. And yet you have insisted on
practice. Why? When you insist on practice, you think that you are going
towards a fixed point. So you have deceived yourself and you are deceiving me.
You do not say to me: "You know nothing and I know nothing; let us find out
if what all the things human beings have imposed on other human beings are
true or false. They have said that enlightenment is something to be achieved
through time, through discipline, through the guru. Let us find out, search
Why have human beings imposed upon human beings something which is not true?
Human beings have tortured themselves, castigated themselves to get
enlightenment, as though enlightenment were a fixed point. And they end up
blind. I think that is why, sir, the so-called man of error is much nearer
the truth than the man who practices to reach the truth. A man who practices
truth becomes impure, unchaste.
January 15, 1971
Sannyasi recluse, hermit, one who has renounced
Purusarthas purpose of existence
Dharma that which holds all together
Artha object of search (worldly)
Kama sensory fulfilment
Dattatreya God's name (with three faces)
Yoga Vasistha a book by sage Vasistha on yoga
Nirodha stopping, ending
Desika a teacher, a disciple
Guru guide through darkness
Sishya disciple who is interested in learning
Sadhana the process of attainment
Brahmin a caste, one who meditates on wholeness
Adhikari deserving candidate
Sattva purity, "that which is"
Rajas energy in manifestation
Tamas darkness, ignorance
Upasanas learning with another who knows
Asanas a posture, a meditative posture
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