Theos-Talk Archives (April 1997 Message tl00182)

Bart wrote:
>        The T.S. is and should be politically incorrect. How does that make it
>untheosophical?

Did I say "incorrect"?  That's what I get for not bothering to proofread my
writing.  With all these indefinite terms, I knew one day I would mangle
it!  Blah, blah, blah.  It's "politically correct".

Anyway, to respond you properly, let me combine your recent post along with
your post on postmodernism and political correctness.

Your post of 4/18:
>        Over the last several months, I have been doing some additional
>research, which has only reinforced my opinion that "political
>correctness" is inherently untheosohpical.

and in your example of Communism:

>        The key to all this is the belief that we create our own reality. In
>Communism, the concepts of postmodernism became integrated into the
>political system. Communism was the ideal system of government,
>therefore those living under a communist system were living ideal lives.
>To say, or even imply otherwise was therefore politically incorrect.
>Because Lysenko's genetics were more in keeping with Communist politics
>than Mendel's, Lysenko's genetics were made the basis of agricultural
>policy in the Soviet Union. This caused disasterous crop failures in the
>Ukraine. Hundreds of thousands of people starved to death in the most
>fertile area in the world, in the name of "political correctness".

Your Communism example indicates that any opposition to their "reality" is
politically incorrect.  Hence my correlation to the Theosophical Society.
In the T.S., any opposition to their "reality" is wrong, or "politically
incorrect."  Thus, the Theosophical Society is untheosophical.  Now, you
may say that the T.S. has no such belief.  That it's belief is the search
for truth, no matter where it lies.  However, from the grievances I
observed on this list, that is untrue.

Quoting myself:
>> I'm not well-versed in the definition of post-modernism in relation to
>> writing.  It seems from Bart's definition, that it is the same as the art
>> definition.  Post-modernism came as a reaction to "Eurocentric" male vision
>> of big, abstract, or minimal art.

Bart's response:
>        In art. It is when it was misapplied to things like science and
>historical fact (as opposed to historical opinion; historical fact
>being, for example, that the U.S. dropped two nuclear weapons on Japan;
>historical opinion, which IS subject to postmodernist interpretation,
>would be whether or not the United States was justified in doing so).
>Note that I compared postmodernism to a hammer; quite suitable for some
>tasks, but worse than useless on others.

True.  Some analysis can be comical.  It's like all these rumors of Elvis
being alive.  To not complicate my life further, I do accept that 2+2=4 and
refuse to discuss that it may not be so.  I have better things to analyze.

>        So is the communist political system, as practiced in China and the
>Soviet Union (as opposed to certain Roman Catholic monastic groups,
>where, although it is not named "communism", is, and has worked for
>centuries).

Marxism could work under certain conditions and sounds great on paper.
However, when combined with the complexities of a huge society and
economics, it fails.  I don't think many people in the general population
would want to have the subservient life of a monk.  The problem with
Communism is that in order to enforce its policy, it ends up having to
force them on individuals.

Myself:
>> That goes for following any "Eurocentric"
>> male vision, also.  Bart's definition of political correctness just seem to
>> be indicating a "Eurocentric" (not you, Bart, just general :o)) male's
>> elitist point of view.

Bart's response:
>        Please explain how.

First, let me guess what a "Eurocentric male"  is.  Actually, you can
probably define him as anything, and I could say that he is politically
correct, by your definition of political correctness.  Anyway, my
definition is the general point of view that the white male is superior.
Or...to use art analogy, the big, abstract or minimalist male art.  Now,
let me define political correctness as you have inadvertently or
advertently defined.  By your example of the Communist society, your
definition of "political correctness" is any going along with a certain
"reality."  The "reality" of the "Eurocentric male" is that characteristics
associated with the white, male (big art, patriarchal society, etc.) is
superior.  To go against that is politically incorrect.  Thus, in a white
male's elitist point of view, any other opinions is politically incorrect.

Bart:
>        What IS wrong is presupposing a belief is in error because you don't
>like it, and assuming it is in error in spite of overwhelming evidence
>to the contrary. Just because an idea is politically correct does not
>automatically make it INcorrect. But if it is correct, then it does not
>need the adverb. And the adverb is ENTIRELY about ego.
>
>        Bart Lidofsky

True, true, and it is ENTIRELY about ego.  Unfortunately, I don't see how
we can avoid it.  Thus, the argument regarding "postmodernism" and
"political correctness" is a postmodernist argument.

Thoa