Re: CWL and Krishnamurti
Mar 18, 1997 10:26 AM
by M K Ramadoss
Dear Liesel & Thoa:
I am glad that we are discussing this issue.
I want to add my 2 cents worth.
1. When anyone is prominent or powerful or influential or occupy any
important position in any institution - public or private, they past and
present comes under public scrutiny and I think rightfully so. If one is not
prominent nor powerful nor influential nor occupy important position, no one
cares about their past or present.
2. CWL and K, though did not formally occupy any official position, were
very influential in the lives of thousands of people all over the world over
a long period of time. So it is right that bright light is focused on what
they were involved in.
3. As I have always said, great people have great achievements and also
4. IMHO, in CWL's case the two greatest contributions of his are his
discovery of K and the enormous writings he has published. Due credit is due
to him and we all owe our gratitude as well.
4. When facts come out, many time there may be things we may not like nor do
we want to know about. But no one should be surprised. No one is perfect and
no one is sacred.
5. Usually there is lionizing of individuals and many don't want to see or
hear anything which does not present their "hero" or "heroine" in the most
favorable light. If one does not want to see any thing negative, then it is
6. Great individuals are capable of openly admitting their defects as well
as admitting any of their activities which the "common man/woman" may not
consider it as favorable or good. An example of this was H S Olcott -- a man
of very great personal integrity -- admitting in writing how in 1874 he was
a man of bars and women.
7. It is the *little* people who try to hide and would not openly admit
their drawbacks and mistakes. They try to cover it by using their
cleverness/sharpness because they are afraid of their own public image.
These individuals may be very influential or very learned and may have held
high offices and may have been a member of TS or other organizations for
zillions of years. But their immaturity shows up by their coverups. The
common man/woman sees thru the mask over a period of time.
8. IMHO, we are all mature enough to see the full picture and clearly think
for ourself and come to our own conclusions based on all available information.
9. When I focus on the basic fundamental tenets/object of TS, I treat
personalities as human beings like all of us and not lionize anyone. We may
individually be benefitted to a lesser or greater extent from anyone and we
should be grateful for it. That does not mean that I should ignore any other
information that I come across.
10. Theos-l is the only place left where we can discuss all of these things
without the fear of censorship or controlled dissemination or information. I
hope it continues and users expand.
PS: Some time ago I accidentally found out that a well known person was sued
by the Attorney General of California, along with other trustees, several
years ago as one of the Trustees of a Charitable Trust for mismanagement and
This trust had world wide holdings of real estate and a lot of donated money
as well. Later on this person, along with other trustees, sued for
multi-million dollars one of the world reknowned spiritual speaker who has
affected many TS members around the world. Most people do not know of this
If this person is just an ordinary member, who cares. But if it is a person
who occupies well known public position, is it not a fair game especially
when it may affect the public organization now and in future. Should we take
an osterich like attitude and say we do not care.
At 11:26 PM 3/17/97 -0500, you wrote:
>Thoa Tran, you wrote
>>A person in the position of making into law code of ethics for
>>his/her followers should be prepared to have his/her life be an open book.
>I don't disagree with that Thoa. But I want you to know, that a long time
>before you joined theos-l, I had a very nasty battle with several of the men
>re CWL. Without going into any of it again, I want you to know Thoa, that my
>Teacher who died 2 years ago, was CWL's pupil, and he told me in no
>uncertain terms that all these nasty allegations re CWL were untrue. There
>are statements by him and other pupils of CWL to the same effect. Some of
>them are in the archives at Wheaton.
>I think that when Smallet, or whatever his name is, wrote his book none of
>the people who really knew CWL would have anything much to do with him. I
>think some of them tried and it misfired. Certain people didn't have
>anything good to say about CWL, and apparently they're the ones who talked
>to him. The ones I know, who loved and revered CWL, as do most Adyar
>Theosophists, say that all this accusations are very false. Now I guess it's
>up to you to figure out, if you can at this distance in time, who's telling
>the truth, and who's lying, or else imagining wrong interpretations on
>Just for instance, S. says disparagingly in his book that he got in touch
>with the Outer Head in Adyar, and never got an answer. That made him angry,
>more or less. Well, if he'd known anything at all about the inner workings
>of the Society, as he should have known in order to write an adequate book
>about CWL, he would have known that the ES is an organization whose members
>aren't allowed to acknowledge that they are members, so of course the Outer
>Head didn't acknowledge his letter. He *did* have an interview with Joy
>Mills, who's so high up in the organisation I'm sure she's an important ES
>member, but he didn't realize that. I forget what the outcome of that was.
>If I remember correctly, she didn't tell him very much.
>I'm really disgusted that people keep on saying disparaging things about CWL
>from time to time on this list. I don't think it's right to do this to any
>of the theosophical leaders, whether he belongs to your own faction or to
>someone else's. I think theos-l should be a meeting place of all the
>splinter groups of Theosophists, and a place where we show respect for each
>other's differences. Seems to me that Theosophists especially should be
>leaders in respecting people's differences. We're the ones who preach the
>"brotherhood" of "man".
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