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Re: [women selfish?]

Feb 05, 1997 03:28 AM
by Tom Robertson

Ben wrote:

>If women "train" men not to want them then they [men] may become less
>selfish in the long term leading to a new "golden age" through eventual self

I believe sexual desire is too inherent to be able to trained out of

>Granted, it may mean temporary pain for men but it would lead us
>upwards to liberation.

I don't see how it would do this.  Liberation means being able to
control how one responds to one's desires, so that abstinence from
their fulfillment is a capability, not necessarily an actuality.

>I don't know where the women would go to though,
>possibly to Venus or perhaps to some other constellation like Sirius.

As long as they get away from me, I don't care where they go.  (Just

>So, if women do not give man what he wants she is being truly altuistic -
>assuming she understands why she is doing it!

I tend to think of altruism as referring to one's motives, not to
results.  Any destructive action can be mistakenly done by an

>It still poses the vexed question of whether men *should* want anything at
>all of women.

I reserve the word "should" for moral decisions.  I believe people are
responsible for neither their desires nor their motives, but only for
which choices they make regarding them.

>If men don't ask for something they want it will inflict pain
>on the emotional body and will simply impede but not prevent the
>inevitable -conflict between spirit and matter.

Spirit and matter relate to each other as men and women do.  They are
best united, not in conflict, which is unnecessary.  You seem to be
implying an extremely anti-materialist approach.  I believe the ideal
balance is to incorporate materiality, not deny it.  Ken Wilber's
"Sex, Ecology, Spirituality," (which is probably much easier reading
than his earlier books) makes this more clear than anything else I
have ever read.  He considers the resentment of one's physical desires
to be very dangerous.  He criticized the Gnostics, among many others,
for this imbalance.

>If men don't ask anything of
>women then how will the seed for the next race come about?

I see no reason for men and women not to ask of each other what they
want.  The ideal relationship is when the desires of each are given
equal weight.  There is imbalance when one party to a relationship
unselfishly sacrifices to the point of not even asking for what he or
she wants.


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