Theos-Talk Archives (December 1996 Message tl00472)

Dear April:

It was a very eye opening post. Most of the items you described are
things most of us know. As a matter of fact just this week in my city there
is a trial going on in which a rich and powerful 73 businessman is on
trial for performing oral sex on a 14 year old employee who was abandoned
by her parents and had been living with relatives and had to work for
such basic necessities like food and clothing. In such a situation she
was taken advantage of by this man.

It is my hope that one of these days men wisen up and treat
women in a kinder and gentler and responsible manner. Only then men can
stand up with their heads high and a clear conscience. This is not to say
that there are no men around who live up to very high standards when
dealing with women.

MKR

On Wed, 18 Dec 1996, April Joy wrote:

> #766 - Tom Robertson wrote:
>
> April Joy wrote:
>
> >>At what point in my initial reply to you did I say women were superior?
> .>>I do not believe either gender is superior.
>
> >>Which 23 criticisms of women do you have?
>
> Why would I need to give 23 criticisms of women, when I was answering
> your criticisms of them to begin with? You called women irrational, then
> I gave examples of irrational acts by men.  Which upsets you the most,
> that someone dared to answer your criticisms with criticisms or that a
> woman answered you in a logical manner?
>
> Through the posts that I have read you have consistently stated that men
> are superior than women due to irrationality, emotionalism, and physcial
> weakness. Then you say they are equal whenever anyone states those
> remarks are sexist. To be equal doesn't equate to superior.
>
> Superior = Having more value, or importance. One higher in quality or
> merit.
> Equal =  Having the same value, or quality.
> Sexism/Sexist = prejudice or discrimination based on sex.
>
> To believe that men are superior to women means you do not believe they
> are equal. Which means you do not believe in equality of the sexs, which
> is sexist.
>
> ---
> Women are neither superior or inferior to men. We are equal. We are both
> capable of doing the same jobs. What differences there are means that
> women, men and just different types of people, will arrive at a solution
> for a problem from a different angle but  will find the solution just
> the same. Each person in society has different ways of handling various
> situations that doesn't make one more superior to the other.
>
> Where society, laws, jobs, home, religion are concerned women rights is
> still in its infancy. Women still have a long way to go to have the same
> rights that men have. Just the fact that you Tom believe that old myth
> that "women like to be dominated" shows how far women's rights has to go
> before all men dump their sterotypes of women and treat us as equals.
>
> Just three years ago I lost a job because a man thought the way you do.
> I was good at my job, I had received many company commendations for my
> work. But when I got a new manager who bluntly stated that "you should
> be a secretary, this is a man's job", I quickly lost my job. He
> deliberately undermined all my work. I created computer presentations
> for the company. He would turn in my drafts as complete work. Then he
> would tell the higher ups that the work I was turning in was low
> quality. I didn't loose my job because I was incompetent, I lost my job
> because a sexist male delibrately sabatoged my work.
>
> I lost two jobs because my bosses wanted sex on the side and I refused.
>
> I lost another job because I had a baby and the boss thought it would
> interfer with my work.
>
> Tom, have you ever lost a job because you wouldn't put out?  Have you
> ever been asked to put out in order to keep a job or get a promotion?
>
> If you have children, did you ever loose or not get a job because the
> company felt it would interfer with your work?
>
> Have you ever gone for an interview where the interviewer made remarks
> about your boby and hinted or stated they wanted your body?
>
> Have you ever gone to an interview where the person hinted or stated
> they would prefer somenone of the opposite sex in the position that was
> open?
>
> Have you ever gone to a doctor's office and been groped by the doctor?
>
> Have you ever waited at a bus stop only to get 1 to 10 offers of money
> for sex?
>
> These are just a few of the problems that women face every day due to a
> belief that women are inferior so it doesn't matter how you treat them.
> Women need to stand up to people like you Tom who are deteremined to
> keep those stereotypes alive. For women suffer in the home, work, and in
> almost all areas of life because of those beliefs.
>
> April Joy
>