Theos-Talk Archives (July 1996 Message tl00259)

On Wed, 10 Jul 1996, Shaman wrote:
 
> ...[options]....
> 
> > it's going to evolve into a better kind of an 
> > electronic organization or rather an electronic community--not just a 
> > forum--a free coalition of independent thinkers helping each other (rather than 
> > teaching each other).
> 
> 
> Or at the very minimum, we are certainly free to teach each other in
> areas where we may have individually studied a particular topic. Some
> of that has happened with a few individuals in relation to my recent
> experiences. Those who know more than I have shared their perspectives
> with me which provides me with the opportunity to expand my understanding.
> However, it is all offered in the spirit of knowing that we are all a
> combination of teacher and student...and there is no ego enhancement
> involved. 

Again agree. This is largely a matter of phraseology which words you pick 
up--"teaching," "sharing," etc. It's important to see the meaning and not 
to get stuck to words. Your version is more detailed and meaningful than 
mine, and I appreciate it.
 
> It would also be great to see people take a chance and write about
> their spiritual experiences on the list. 

It depends. For example, I am not inclined to share my experience of 
communicating 
with my Self: 1) that experience is mostly not communicable to others,
2) I feel that almost any attempt to communicate it will spoil it.
However, there are other areas of experience that may be meaningfully 
discussed.

<<clip>>

> > lot of lousy karma initiated by two of its co-founders, HPB and Olcott, 
> > who issued orders on behals of the Masters, encouraged unquestioning 
> > obedience, etc., etc., so the subsequent leaders just perpetuated that 
> > tradition--without being initiates like HPB.
> 
> 
> Well, it's important to remember though that a person can be very
> enlightened and still come to this planet with their own karma. The
> real test in my mind would be this:
> 
> Has Ms. Blavatsky or Mr. Olcott ever offered anything, idea-wise,
> that has enriched the people who have learned of it? Have they
> changed any lives? Have they done any good? Bottom line is that
> they will ultimately be judged on that alone. Being enlightened
> in one area doesn't prevent someone from being a butthead in
> another area.
>  
> I'm reminded a bit of the personality of Ayn Rand. Although I am
> no one's libertarian, she *did* come up with ideas for people to
> think about. My understanding from Barbara Branden, her personality
> left a lot to be desired. In the world of ideas, personality just
> doesn't matter though. It is only the merit of the idea that
> counts. 
> 
> If anyone knowingly and blindly follows another, s/he usually gets
> what s/he pays for: nothing. It is an individual and personal
> responsibility to think independently. No one -- not Blavatsky,
> Ayn Rand or God herself -- is responsible for our elightenment. 
> I haven't read enough of Ms.Blavatsy to know whether or not she
> came up with any revolutionary ideas...but what little I know,
> I found some value there. I don't much care about her personally,
> one way or the other. That's between her and her God.

Karma is not a one-dimensional thing. There are different kinds of karma 
associated with what one is (1) doing, (2) speaking, and (3) thinking. 
Also, one's actions may create a mixed karma, both harmful and 
beneficial. We are not supposed to judge her--it's between her and her 
God, it's true. But we live in an environment partially shaped by HPB, 
and that's to be taken into account and responded to by sharing her views 
or by ognoring them; however, that's our karma how we do that, not hers.
 
> > This karma got built in the 
> > very structure of the Society, so there is little hope for T.S. to 
> > survive.  
> 
> 
> I disagree here. That sort of thing always has the potential of
> being turned around. 

Everything is possible, but is it probable?

> It's up to the individuals involved to 
> make it happen. As a friend of mine always says, "take the best
> and leave the rest." 

People may feel empowered, but how about the organizational inertia? 

"...Leave the rest' may in this case even mean leaving thr T.S. for a 
better place or for no place.

Max